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Original poster

Use of child death as an analogy for sense of loss should be punishable by wearing a dimwit hat for ever more

14 replies

wibblies · 03/11/2015 11:31

Fucking Liz Fraser in the weekend guardian is the latest in a long line of journalists and writers who seem to think this is ok.

Here's a sample of what she has to say in her article about her sense of loss in watching her children grow from primary age into teenagers:

"When the joy goes - and it does, because life moves on and you can’t play peek-a-boo with a 12-year-old who wants to play Minecraft with his similarly zit-infested mates – it feels like bereavement."

"Those young children are dead now. They are gone."

"The bereavement is long, slow and refreshed every day."

Just so you know, Liz Fraser, watching a child grow up as it gets older is really not anything like not watching a child grow up because the child is dead. I know this, because I've tried them both.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who notices this shit? Please tell me you recognise that it's not the fucking same at all? That it's not even a tiny bit similar and that it's crass in the extreme to suggest it?

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MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 03/11/2015 15:16

Apologies - we hadn't seen this thread when we tweeted, and it must have seemed pretty poorly-timed. We can of course see why the language used in the piece might be upsetting to someone who has lost a child.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 03/11/2015 16:03

Yes, we've deleted the tweet now, JugglingFromHereToThere.

MNHQ

YetAnotherHelenMumsnet · 03/11/2015 17:21

Hi all,
Just to address some of the disappointment about MNHQ's having tweeted the piece, we genuinely are sorry. We deleted our tweet immediately after seeing this thread, because we agree with the point that so many are making, and we came on the thread straight away to explain. We are very sorry that our having tweeted the piece out has caused additional pain to so many of you, it's really never our intention.

MNHQ

YetAnotherHelenMumsnet · 03/11/2015 17:22

Also, laffy's post was deleted because of a personal attack that we felt was beyond the pale.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2015 09:18

Hi all,
I've been taking a look at this thread this morning. First, I'm really sorry for any unnecessary pain and anger we caused by tweeting this article. Clearly it was poorly-worded and insensitive in places (which I think the writer, Liz Fraser, has acknowledged) and clearly we were equally insensitive in tweeting about it. It was an error of judgement for sure for which others on the team have rightly apologised.

I don't want to proffer excuses but I would say that in truth lots of people (myself included) will from time to time be guilty of thoughtlessness around bereavement because we don't actually live with the day to day pain that bereaved parents do, so threads like this - while in no way wishing them on anyone - do serve as a wake up call to be a bit more thoughtful.

We promise to try; and of course will also continue to support the wonderful Woolley Hugs as much as we can and all those on here who've suffered the unthinkable tragedy of losing a child.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2015 09:28

@BoreOfWhabylon

You might like to take a look at this thread too Justine

I'd really like the writer of the Guardian article to read it too.

Yes it's a great thread - it would be great to do a guest post/blog on this subject that we could then tweet out etc if anyone(s) - perhaps MrsDevere - feels up for writing it?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2015 09:39

@derxa

But Justine, Liz Fraser is not sorry. Her Twitter messages demonstrate that very clearly.

I didn't follow it yesterday but have been told she apologised for insensitive wording. I guess we can see if she'd like to come on this thread?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2015 09:56

@ThenLaterWhenItGotDark

Justine, I don't use twitter but lay in bed last night appalled at what she was saying about MN, MNers and bereaved parents.

Anyone who even attempted to engage with her was fobbed off as being a troll, then blocked. Then she and her cronies continued laughing at them.

You don't need MrsD to write a post. She already has. You need to stand behind your users and send her post to the Guardian.

I think would be great to promote the sentiments from MrsD's thread beyond Mumsnet - we could do this in the form of a guest post but you're right, the Guardian might want to run it too. We can certainly offer it as and when.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2015 10:08

@MrsDeVere

If my post is going in the Guardian it better be bloody proof read first. I am not having people troll me for erroneous use of commas!

And if there is ANY backlash you lot better be there.

Ha - now proofreading we can do! We'll drop you a line MrsD with a fuller brief.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2015 10:28

Sorry, hiddenhome2, I know you feel strongly but I've just deleted two of your posts - do post again but without the personal abuse.

MNHQ

SarahMumsnet · 04/11/2015 11:47

Hi there MrsDeVere - we've emailed you on the address we have for you, but PM me if you haven't received anything?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2015 12:30

@MrsKoala

She's really not covering herself in glory here is she? Oh dear.

I'm disappointed in MN really - they should be standing up for the valued members of this online community, particularly those who have suffered the unspeakable pain of the loss of a child.

I also hope you get something published as a response MrsD. Sadly i don't think Liz will ever 'get it', judging from her behaviour so far. But others might. Flowers

I don't think a Twitter bunfight would achieve anything at all tbh - much better to try to spread the word in a considered way on why careless analogies can be hurtful.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/11/2015 14:48

@MrsKoala

I also agree a Twitter bunfight would be ill advised, but i would have hoped that there was some point in the middle between, silently not defending valued MNers and having an undignified argy bargy. But as you say above, that time has been and gone. Hindsight and all that.

As others have said, it's the responses that have made this so much worse.

I really do take criticisms of MN and Mumnetters as personally as anyone, but also think sometimes the absolute best strategy is to ignore. And in truth I care much more that people who actually use it generally find it valuable and supportive than about the opinions of those who don't.

MNHQ

SarahMumsnet · 05/11/2015 16:50

Hi all,

Very glad to be able to tell you that we've reproduced MrsDeVere's OP from her thread on her experience of being a bereaved parent as a guest post (with her help and permission, obviously), which we'll share over all our social channels and on the home page. Please do pop over and have a look, and if you'd like to, share your thoughts there. Justine has been in touch with the Guardian to ask if they'd like to republish it.

Thanks again to MrsDeVere for writing it.

MNHQ

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