WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

sian as you have said yourself, we all experience some sort of discrimination at one level or the other. Even a white man could say they exprience that too (eg a white man from Liverpool could say they experience discrimination and prejudice when they move to London because of their very broad accent).

What you are actually saying is that the discrimination faced by trans is WORSE than the one experienced by (cis)women.
Who are you to be able to say that? Who makes the judge of how hard it is to be discriminated? Is it really harder to be a white MTF person than it is to be a cis black woman (In the US, in the UK or let's say in South Africa)?
REALLY???

It looks to me that actually white MTF people have a hell of a lot of privilege compared to a black woman tbh, even in our western countries.

how many MTF people actually fully transition to female?

The estimate is that around 70-80% of MTF have not had genital surgery.

Queenlabeefa that first point is debateable. But that's what intersectionality is for - everyone has a variety of sorts of privilege and they affect how easy they have it when they interact with their environment. Being generally larger and stronger my offer an advantage in some situations, but not all. My able privilege doesn't make me as smart as Stephen Hawking, and the discussion isn't contest as to who has it worst.

Second point is valid!

siani - You are just dancing now. It's toe-curlingly embarrassing to watch.

Copy/pasting what you are replying to will help you actually answer people's points.

siani the point is that you can enumerate all the different ways people are oppressed or you can try to tackle the mindset that thinks that oppression of anyone is alright. You do better to turn your ire on the real attackers than trying to work out who the most oppressed is.

Sian did you read the study.

'Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality'

Despite having female brains, it seems as though they commit crime at the same rate as men. Huh.

It's like arguing with a 14yr old. (Something I am currently having far too much experience of).

One then why is that?

I mean they clearly all want to be women. So why keeping a penis that is still fully functional when they hate been a man so much?
Serious question as I just can't comprehend why on earth you would keep something that is a very stark reminder of what you do NOT want to be.

I realise this is true only if you have a very separated idea of what gender is - man on one side, woman on the other. But then I thought the whole idea of trans is based on that concept. Otherwise they would just be 'gender fluid'?

What an inflammatory op, I have never seen the term used on here except for in your op.

As a human I would like everyone to have equal rights in a fair way however what I do not want is my hard won rights as a woman to be eroded to make others feel less oppressed.

Is that so hard to see? FFS we women have it hard enough anyway.

cote I saw one trans 'woman' refer to their penis as a 'feminine penis'. That was part of their argument as to why lesbians should feel obliged to have sex with them.
And yes, it was just one. I'm sure the majority of transwomen don't think that way.

QueenLabeefah I did ask what her age is and she hasn't responded.

Woodheaven no, that's exactly my point, that's how intersectionality works. Although identifying a the same gender I was assigned at birth offers an advantage in some ways, that advantage can be completely unrelated to other ways I am disadvantaged. The overall "better off" depends not only on all those types of privilege and disadvantage, but on how they intersect with each other and the world you live in. Just because the black cis woman has cis privilege doesn't mean that she's better of than a white trans woman. It will benefit her specifically in ways related to hatred of trans people only.

Wood I don't know the reasons, however the surgery is pretty dangerous and people who undergo it have to take hormones and steroids for the rest of their lives so I imagine that is a significant factor.

I can imagine that a large proportion of MTF who don't undergo "bottom" surgery have a very difficult relationship with their penis though

What the actual fuck is a feminine penis?

Siani, what if I say I don't have a gender? And not in the sense of being 'agender' - what if I say I have a biological sex, and no gender at all? Is that allowed?

Assigned a gender at birth? Is that how it works now? Jesus.

Maybe they tied a pink bow on it doing

Assigned a gender? Groan.

The autogynephile white well-off heterosexual late-transitioners are in no way in the same position of those who transition in deeply homophobic cultures.

There have been no murders of MTTs in the UK whereas two women are murdered by male partners every week. But women must deny all of that out of kindness.

Fuck. That.

I was born a particular sex. I'd much rather the world stopped attempting to assign any fucking gender to me, thank you very much.

"Being handicapped is physical reality. You don't just "feel like" a handicapped person."

Well, actually, that's not how disability works. A disability is anything that impacts on your life in a significant and ongoing manner - I think if it's an issue which takes up more than an hour a day for you to deal with it.

That might be include depression, which can't be physically measured, for example, as is totally based on "how I feel".

Speaking for myself, I don't "identify" as a woman. I literally do not understand what is meant by that, and it's only ever been explained to me in the very gender stereotypical language that gender critical feminism rejects as oppressive to all. I don't "identify" as a woman. I AM one, by virtue of biology.

So if your definition of cis is someone who identifies as a gender that matched their biology, then I'm still not cis, sorry.

I'm pretty astonished that anyone is silly enough to try and explain intersectionality to feminists in such a tone of exasperated patience.

If you've a point to make, it often helps if you don't assume everyone else is an eejit. Especially if you can't answer even the simplest logical extrapolation from what you imagine your point is.

Woodheaven it's very difficult to obtain the surgery. I have friends here and in the US who have had it, both privately and on the NHS. it's very expensive, invasive, and has a long recovery time. Hormones can also have the effect of considerably changing the penises appearance and function without surgery. Many people cannot afford the surgery overseas. Even here, because of the recovery time, it can be a real issue - if you are not in a secure job you can need to navigate the benefits system in order to do it. And the changes from hormones can make it easier to ignore as it becomes smaller and no longer capable of erections. If someone has a small, flaccid penis that no one ever sees, and changing that would require risking throwing themselves on the mercy of the benefits system it's a bit more understandable.

I have contacted my MP about TH being transferred to a women's prison, as another mner posted this is her 8th violent offence so as much as I would like to say she won't repeat any more crimes I think there's a chance she will.

What happens then? What IF she commits a more serious crime and is sentenced for longer? Should the women be expected to share their cell with her? I think this has opened a can of worms and once again it is the women in society who are expected to take the fall.