WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

I hate the way trans women are discussed here. It's cruel and spiteful. You're generalising about a whole group of people. It's so much more complex than you understand.

This, 100%. Imagine making the comments you are making about transgender people about any other section of society.

Meanwhile women are getting acid thrown on their faces and girls are suffering FGM, or being kept out of school because they don't have sanpro or toilets or because the thought of a woman with a book and the ability to read it is too much for the men in many societies to handle.

Yes, because someone is only able to be bothered about one thing at a time aren't they. Violence against women is completely irrelevant to transgender issues. I don't know about you, but I am capable of seeing them as separate hateful and unacceptable things that need to be addressed.

I would love to see pressing problems for women receive the attention this non-problem gets.

Don't be ridiculous. FGM, DV and the other things you mention all get coverage and with far fewer people bleating on about how unimportant the issues are and how disgusting it is to complain about them.

For the record, I am not transferred and I don't knowingly know anyone who is.

I do wonder why it is ok to be so intolerant of transgender issues and yet repellent to be intolerant of, say, homosexuality or other discriminatory areas.

I do find that the transgender threads have made me file a good number of MMers into the "bigoted idiot" box in my head.

Siani I suggest you read Marilyn Frye on structural oppression. Cis women are not the ones benefiting from patriarchal violence against transwomen.
You should also Google an essay called 'cis- cui bono? '

Yup, no such thing as honour killing siani. And no such thing as women being set on fire because their dowry has been judged to be insufficient or their husband has died. No woman has ever been murdered because of events in the past that she might have had no control over at all.

sinai - You said "I benefit from cis privilege if I date someone without the risk that I may be beaten or killed if they find out about my past".

You are told that is not the case and that it is not unusual for women to be beaten and/or killed because their husband or partner finds out something about their past.

And now you are dancing around the issue because you can't admit you are wrong.

Just so we are clear.

I have a lot of sympathy for trans women but that doesn't mean I have to regard them as women.

The bigot accusation is just a tired old trick to make people shut up. Doesn't work anymore.

Maude no, they are just subject to another kind of violence. People attack them for being trans.

Privilege is a shit awful term, because it's unnecessarily loaded. But the concept is good, that each of us is at an advantage in some ways and disadvantaged in others. The problem is that people seem to assume that privilege in one area means privilege in all areas.

I find it downright fucking offensive that a poster is labelling women not getting beaten up by their partners as 'privilege'. Aren't we lucky.

SeveredHeads - couldn't agree more!

"Imagine making the comments you are making about transgender people about any other section of society."

Sure, we can totally do that. And it can hopefully help you understand that there is nothing hateful or bigoted about what is being said here:

Being handicapped is physical reality. You don't just "feel like" a handicapped person. You certainly shouldn't push to redefine "handicapped" to include "those who have functional limbs & full mental faculties who feel handicapped". Not only is that madness but it also makes it difficult to identify, collect data on, and help handicapped people with their problems.

Just look at the women in Afhganistan. In the 1970s they led fairly liberal lives but now, because some bat shit crazy patriarchal nut jobs have taken over they are treated as less than human

Women's rights have been bloody hard won and can be taken from us in a heart beat. They should be guarded feriously not compromised to make trans women feel happier with their lot in life.

Maude no, they are just subject to another kind of violence. People attack them for being trans.

Yup. Women never get attacked or murdered for being women. Sure. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Hold on, so a transwoman is experiencing violence from men but somehow it's all the responsibility of women who have the 'chance' to be born women?

What do trans people want (cis)women to do exactely, apart from been referred as cis??

I'm at lost I have to say.
My very naive view was that, as a MTF person, a transwoman would WANT to be seen as a woman, a 'real' woman (whatever that actually means) ie be treated and be able to act as if that person was BORN a woman (or with a woman's genital).
So why would trans people be so attached at separating themselves from women as a whole by giving them a different label?

So siani you are really saying that a someone being attacked just for the very state of their being, just because someone else has the power and ability to do so, is really totally different from another person being attacked just for the very state of their being, just because someone else has the power and ability to?

Because if you take that point of view, you will never actually achieve any meaningful change whatsoever. You will manage to piss off a lot of other people by pushing round some meaningless words and terms.

But not one person will ever sleep more safely as a result.

I said that I benefit from cis privilege in that way.

And also that cis privilege doesn't cancel out any of the risks that we have because of gender. Not sure how those could be clearer. Are you honestly saying that there are no ways in which being trans makes life harder than not being trans? That seems proper mental to me, so many people actively hate trans people. Being hated for something you can't control makes life hard.

Also how many MTF people actually fully transition to female?
How many keep on their penis and why? (Is it cost, is the lack of availibility of the procedure or is it that actually they aren't and never will be 'ready' to be a woman but the 'label' of MTF person works well for them?)
How many MTF actually decide that it wasn't for them once they properly experience what it is to live as a woman?

If you were referring only to yourself, you should have called it "siani privilege".

Great for you if you have nothing in your past that a man might feel like killing you for. I'm not sure why you think we want to talk about you, though.

SeveredHead I used to feel as you do. Until I read and read and thought and thought and saw what vocal trans activists were expecting women to accept, and for me it was too much.
This does not make me a bigoted idiot, or hateful or spiteful. I am not transphobic, I do not wish ill on transwomen, I don't go around gluing razor blades to their cars or posting death and rape threats to them on twitter.
I simply do not find it acceptable for women's rights to be eroded, for their welfare to be compromised and for their issues to be sidelined in favour of another oppressed group.

Trans women have it harder than men but not women. And because of their male privilege that is why they are so vocal about it.

Also think carefully about using the term "mental". - it is quite offensive to a lot of people.

This is such a goady post. "Chicks with dicks" is the kind of terminology used in porn, not by mums netters.

A black woman may be attacked for being a woman OR for being black. A gay woman may be attacked for being a woman OR For being gay. A trans woman may be attacked for being a woman OR for being trans. I'm not sure why this is controversial.

And no woman has ever been hated for being a woman. Just like no jewish person has ever been hated for being jewish. Or a black person for being black.

"how many MTF people actually fully transition to female?
How many keep on their penis and why? "

I find this puzzling. Even calling them "he" apparently causes immense distress and pushes them to suicide, but their functional penises and testes dangling between their legs as permanent reminders of their maleness are no problem?

And who is doing the attacking? That's right - men. Why is this something women are expected to fix? Haven't we got enough to do?