to think if you have a penis, you do not belong in a woman's prison

[RickRoll]

There is to be an appeal tomorrow, at Bristol Crown Court, regarding the decision to send violent criminal Tara Hudson, who works as a transsexual prostitute (still has a penis, as 80% of transsexuals do), to male prison. Tara wants to go to a female prison.

AIBU to think that if you have a penis, you should go to male prison?

People are arguing that Tara is at risk of sexual assault, but Tara is not unique in this - lots of (non transgender) men are vulnerable, and the prison service has a responsibility to protect them.

I took jorah's comment to be about the extreme trans activists and their allies, like the ones who were pressuring for Tara to be moved to a women's prison. There are a growing number of trans women who would not dream of enroaching on women's space like that, and who get a lot of abuse from the extreme trans activists and allies for it.

Please remember that, stopfuckingshouting, else you will come across as the one making blanket statements about trans people.

I feel a lot of compassion for the community and see them as oppressed rather than oppressors - I am a bit mystified by the antagonism towards them on this thread

That's it, though - you are presenting it as if there is only one opinion shared by all transgender people. There isn't. Some trans women are fantastic allies to women, and pay the price for it. Some trans women (and some men who claim a female identity but who haven't transitioned at all) are incredibly misogynist, and yet are framing the narrative to position themselves as oppressed by women rather than the other way around.

When someone tries to grind me into the dust, and take away everything that I've fought for, and then claims that I'm the one oppressing them, you can bet your boots that I will become antagonistic to them.

I appreciate that came across as patronising - I have just been quite taken aback by this thread and I will say this again - shocked by some of the language and assertions made against trans people.

I pray to god that my children are lucky enough to identify with the gender they were born with as its fucking tough out there.

I'm shocked by some of the language used by some trans people, actually. "Cis" being a prime example. Apparently, if you're not trans, you're cis. That's misgendering, actually, but apparently that doesn't matter if you're not trans.

I sincerely hope that my children are allowed to grow up without the societal constructs of gender oppressing them, and restricting their life choices. I fear that will not be the case however.

I'm shocked at some of the language used by some of the extreme trans activists, too. (And these aren't fringe outliers - these are people who get platforms, interviews, accolades, lots of followers.) Things like "terms like gay or lesbian are really transphobic - think about it". "Let's burn some TERFs." "We need a conversation about how transphobic cis women enable rape culture." (Because rape is the fault of the people without dicks, not the people with dicks, suuuuure.....) And so on and so forth.

re Tara, apparently also has a previous conviction for assault on a police officer.

Shrinking violet, not.

stop I don't 'identify with the gender I was born with'

I was mistaken for a boy until around age 14/15. (Then I grew tits and hips and catapulted straight into getting leered at and groped)

I'm quite mannish as an adult, work in a male dominated field etc

Gender can get to fuck. Its bullshit. Its made up and its harmful to women

Very very few people have any sense of 'gender'. And those that do can only manage to explain it in terms of clothes/colour/hobby preference. Its just social conditioning. I.breally loosing patience with people who buy into it. Its actually idiotic tbh

If anyone doubts the actual violent, woman-hating misogyny of certain elements in the trans movement, please feel free to look at this:
terfisaslur.com/
Which is just more of the same shit, really. Men threatening women. Only they feel extra-legitimised.

I've been following the TG radfem discussion for years. It only seems to be the TG community that wish death and harm to others

I dont know how people read that and still take that 'side'

Well, most transgender people don't go around actively wishing harm on people. Some of the stuff transactivists write is violent and awful, but a lot of the worst stuff is 'allies' who have seized on the subject because they've realised it's a socially acceptable way to be misogynist or slag off feminists. IME (having followed these debates for a few years now) it's actually a very small number of transactivists who are responsible for much of the misogyny, given a microphone and lots of back-up by a much larger number of non-trans people.

What does bother me, though, is how many trans people who don't themselves call for violence, are tolerant of those who do and allow themselves to be represented by them. While women get attacked as TERFS and told to die in a fire for the mildest of gender questioning, you get a well-known transactivist in a number of public positions telling a woman on Twitter to suck his balls and nobody seems to think this is wrong

Th gender identity thing is interesting. I most definitely feel like a woman- I feel myself to be part of a long history of women, and of women's struggle and women's unknown stories. Does that mean anything to anyone? Why I do some things, I feel a connection- almost a collective memory. Some traditional things- feeding a baby, making bread, saying good bye to a nest leaving child. But other things too. Standing up against oppression, the frustration of being held back by your sex. The feeling of being sidelined and silenced by men. The triumph of achievement. There are thousands of generations of women at my back.

That's why I am a woman, not a cis-woman. I will not have my history taken from me. People have tried to wipe out women's stories before. I am damned if I am going to let them be destroyed from within by some sort of Trojan Horse with a 7 inch surprise penis.

I wonder what the various prison reform organisations make of it all? I suspect they are nice liberal types so will be all for a violent male being banged up with vulnerable women.

Some sensible articles starting to appear after the earlier torrent of bullshit

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/tara-hudson-imprisoned-by-identity-politics/17593

Yes Bertrand that is why I feel like a women. Because of my lived experience and relating that to others around the world and through history

And because I bleed

that spiked article is written by Luke Gittos: law editor at spiked, a solicitor practicing criminal law and convenor of the London Legal Salon. He is the author of Why Rape Culture is a Dangerous Myth: From Steubenville to Ched Evans.

Other notable works of his include ‘RAPE BY DECEPTION’ SHOULD NOT BE A CRIME

and
COSBY: CONVICTED BY SOCIAL-MEDIA SHOWTRIAL

I'm not convinced that the author has the welfare and rights of women at heart, given his chosen subject matter usually consists of rape apologism.

Do you think spik*d.com read mumsnet? , I also don't think he gives the beginnings of a fuck about women's welfare.

I noticed that, Hairy, and he's not someone I would look to for support or conversation on this, but even an utter wanker can occasionally say something right, even if for entirely the wrong reasons. I am as one with George Bush on the opinion that broccolli is overrated, for example.

I thought it was fascinating to see that all the johns who had bought the services of Tara and others - wankers all - were all supportive of Tara going into a women's prison.

I don't think it's surprising that Tara's clients wanted Tara to go to women's prison.

The essence of 'shemale porn' and 'shemale prostitution' is selling gay sex to homophobic men. So of course Tara's clients fully endorse the idea that Tara is a woman. That's the fantasy they paid for, and now the government, MoJ and media fully support their 'not gay' self-image. 'I fuck WOMEN, damnit!'

The spiked article is good (even though I find spiked pretty vile a lot of the time). Some of the comments are stupid, but that's par for the course.

You make a good point, RickRoll.

"I pray to god that my children are lucky enough to identify with the gender they were born with as its fucking tough out there."

I brought my children up to believe gender was no different to other stereotypes (ethnicity, sexuality, class, etc.): a load of old bollocks that nobody should take any notice of.

There are loads of things that 'make it tough out there'; being a woman, being black, being disabled, being poor

Am depressed to see that Caroline Lucas, who I have generally considered the most sensible of the Greens, had jumped on the bandwagon and demanded Hudson be moved to a women's prison.

Don't they all ever stop to think, hmm, I wonder who else might be affected by this? Or are women prisoners invisible? Or (more likely) women prisoners just don't matter at all?

This is a great blog post about the situation. - No women prisoners don't matter do they?

youngradicalfeminists.wordpress.com/2015/10/30/tara-hudson/