to think if you have a penis, you do not belong in a woman's prison

[RickRoll]

There is to be an appeal tomorrow, at Bristol Crown Court, regarding the decision to send violent criminal Tara Hudson, who works as a transsexual prostitute (still has a penis, as 80% of transsexuals do), to male prison. Tara wants to go to a female prison.

AIBU to think that if you have a penis, you should go to male prison?

People are arguing that Tara is at risk of sexual assault, but Tara is not unique in this - lots of (non transgender) men are vulnerable, and the prison service has a responsibility to protect them.

I have size 8 feet. As a teen many shops only went up to a 7 in women's shoes. I get that trans people do have issues with shoes, but honestly, a cis privilege is scraping the bottom of the barrell. I really can't take that list seriously given the comments on jobs, medical care and violence.

I came here to say of course she should be in a male prison if she has a penis. However having seen that picture, I'm sure she IS being subject to harrassment.

It's time for prisons for trans men and women to be made.

Would this whole situation be seen differently if the picture were of a flat-chested brunette?

I don't think the petition would have had as many signatures.

But the situation would have been the same, because I think a trans woman would receive abuse in a men's prison regardless of how pneumatic they were.

There doesn't seem to be much demand for prisons for transmen. Funny that.

Noblegiraffe, yes, the whole thing is very sexist isn't it. Tara's photos make her look like a prostitute, she IS a prostitute, but the media play that off by saying that she's an 'unemployed make-up artist', so you have this sort of Madonna-whore complex going on, and the entire argument has been 'look at her, isn't she awfully pretty, she can't possibly go in with the mens'. Same thing with Caitlyn Jenner, who presented a hyper-sexualised image of a woman, and basically tried to claim that she was BETTER than a woman (woman of the year, no less), because she makes a convincing sex object at the age of 66, whereas say, wrinkly old Germaine Greer, is nothing of any value.

To this end, some of the comments in the newspaper sections have been things like 'her mum's sex change has gone very well', and so on, basically saying that because Tara is in her twenties, and has the benefit of makeup, youth, plastic surgery and Photoshop, she is MORE of a woman than her mum, purely based on physical attractiveness.

It doesn't seem very fair to other transwomen to effectively say that if you hit this prostitute/Playboy standard of cartoon-femininity, you are a woman, despite a seven-inch cock, whereas another transwoman, who is perhaps older, fatter, less attractive, etc., but has actually undergone a full transition, is of no value.

Let us be clear, the 'Tara' image of a pretty blonde with a big tits and big throbbing cock has got NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with womanhood, and everything to do with catering to the sexual desires of MEN.

How dare the BBC, Daily Mail, et al, redefine womanhood as nothing more than the object of a male sexual fantasy.

Just been reading this article by Rosie Redstockings on why Tara is the thin end of the wedge.

That is quite a scary article

thank you for your anger, RickRoll

I agree with every word.

It's time for prisons for trans men and women to be made.

Except, TheHouseOnTheLane, we know from experiences with gender-neutral bathrooms and changing rooms that this wouldn't be acceptable to trans activists. Even when gender-neutral single stalls are available - thus negating any argument about safety - we still have trans women insisting on using the women's facilities, because to do so validates their identity in a way that gender-neutral facilities don't.

If Tara had been put in a vulnerable prisoners unit, as many men are for various reasons (child abusers, former policemen, informers, etc), then the risk of violence would have been considerably ameliorated. But that would not have validated Tara's identity. Only a women's prison would do.

I think what Tara was really hoping for was to have her sentence reduced to an ankle monitor at home and a rehab programme.

Maybe TH needs to curb that nasty temper and I don't know, maybe stop drinking to the point that they cause innocent people injuries.

I have a bit of a problem with the idea that Tara has male privilege

She has behaved despicably and i now hope she get segregation wherever the fuck she is and comes out and stops head butting people

but I really struggle with the notion that Tara and her peers have male privilege - I can't even imagine how hard their day to day life is - and the abuse that transgender people get

It's the opposite of privilege

Transferring Tara from a male prison because of risk to Tara, and placing Tara in a female prison, meant placing Tara's welfare above the entire female population of that prison, who are now at risk from Tara.
And Taras peers who will now be claiming they are women too.

Huge privilege.

Tara and people like her have male privilege because they were born male and socialised as male. There is enormous privilege in that. Demanding access to female spaces is a sign of male privilege. Demanding that women step aside and be accommodating to male desires is a sign of male privilege.

stopfuckingshouting Tara will be physically bigger and stronger than most of the women in Eastwood Park, and has a weapon handily always at hand (Tara's penis). Tara also has 14 thousand people willing to stand up for them and insist that they be housed wherever they want. That's a hell of a lot more than any other woman at Eastwood Park prison will have. What is all that if not privilege?

Bear in mind that - unlike Tara - most women in prison will be there for nonviolent crimes, and that many come from vulnerable backgrounds. Nearly half have experienced domestic violence, more than half have been abused as children (physically or sexually) and a third grew up in care. I very much doubt that any of these will have 14 thousand people looking out for them. Where is the cis privilege there?

And Eastwood Park doesn't have a segregation unit. Some of the double-occupancy cells are very small, and have an unscreened toilet.

I throughly agree with what you say about female prisoners and their backgrounds - I dare say many of the men In her prison will have had equally abhorrent childhoods and adulthood a too . But I digress

I just do not equate the vocal force behind Tara as male privilege . Since originally posting u have changed my view around what should happen to her - but I do Not believe 'male priviledge' is the right term that's all .

Many of the examples on that male priviledge thread will be utterly denied to Tara and co. Getting to be CEO , getting good treatment from mechanics etc - Tara and team ain't getting that just a level of abuse and prejudice reserved for those people view as 'chicks with dicks ' or other such abhorrent terms

stopfucking But do you think Tara and co will call that sexism? Do you think they'll see that as part of the privileges also denied to women? Will they stand with the feminists who campaign for that discrimination and abuse to end?

Of course not. It will be 'transphobic'. They don't want to be women, they want to be speshul snowflakes who dress like women, but are deserving of more respect.

Right, letter to my MP sent off. Here's hoping.

jorah your post reminded me of Paris Lees, whose contribution to anti-sexism work consists of calling women prudes, and encouraging men to catcall women, because it's just so sexy and affirming to be sexually harrassed in the street.

I've written to my MP too. I'm also going to write a complaint to the BBC and the journalist someone linked to earlier who had written a piece for the Daily Mail.

Not a complaint to the journalist, it was a good article

Jorah - that comment came across as making blanket assumptions around all trans people . And landed as being very prejudiced . Tara is Not all trans gendered people please remember that

please remember that

Try not to be so patronising next time.

I'm well aware that Tara is not all transgendered people. Comments about making generalisations are a little ironic, though, considering that many transgendered people attempt to tell us what we, as biological women, must feel.

I did say "Tara and co", as in transgender people who insist on having access to women's spaces, particularly those with vulnerable women i.e prisons, rape crisis centres, women's shelters and so on.

I'm not making blanket statements; one of my closest friends is FTM and is a staunch feminist, and would never demand that discussion of biological men's issues be silenced as it doesn't apply to him - he is campaigning for gender neutral toilets to be introduced at the university alongside biological men's and women's toilets, for example. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for many of the MTF transgender people I'm acquainted with.

I think we will have to agree to disagree ! I feel a lot of compassion for the community and see them as oppressed rather than oppressors - I am a bit mystified by the antagonism towards them on this thread but from reading a few articles there is a clearly a rift between the feminist and trans communities .

And the thought of Tara and her penis sharing a cell , toilet and showers with women is abhorrent to me too -