to think if you have a penis, you do not belong in a woman's prison

[RickRoll]

There is to be an appeal tomorrow, at Bristol Crown Court, regarding the decision to send violent criminal Tara Hudson, who works as a transsexual prostitute (still has a penis, as 80% of transsexuals do), to male prison. Tara wants to go to a female prison.

AIBU to think that if you have a penis, you should go to male prison?

People are arguing that Tara is at risk of sexual assault, but Tara is not unique in this - lots of (non transgender) men are vulnerable, and the prison service has a responsibility to protect them.

I read today that suicide is the biggest killer for men between a certain age range (18 -45)? so despite all their gender privilege - it clearly ain't all that ! Otherwise why are they the largest group with undiagnosed mental health issues

To me, as a feminist, it's pretty clear that this sort of thing isn't "Oh the poor menz" - it's about male acquiescence in harmful versions of masculinity. That's why men should listen to feminists: breaking down & being critical of oppressive gender roles is good for men's health too.

And I AM NOT doing an Emma Watson about "He for She" I'm happy to be a feminist without male approval, endorsement or assistance thankyouverymuch.

But men are stupid if they don't see & start to be critical of, and organise against harmful models of oppressive masculinity. Just as feminists have organised, worked together, and been critical of harmful oppressive female gender roles.

However, the treason they will put up with the "few" men who suffer the harm of masculinity is because for most of them, the huge benefits of masculinity (aka male privilege) outweigh its dangers. And the very model of masculinity that harms them, tells them that men who suffer with MH problems, suicide etc, are just "weak" and not "real men."

It's their problem not that of feminists.

Of course men don't belong in women's prison sentence.
Unless you chategorically believe men's right to be safe from male violence trumps women's right to be safe from make violence.
If you believe transwomen are ant different to other males in their treatment of women you only need to take a look at how many of them have raped women (with their penis, btw, in case that wasn't clear) or attempted to rape women. Some transwomen have killed women.
But who gives a shit, the victims were only women, eh?

Sorry for typos

The fact that Tara has a penis which she likes to use to have sex with, and which she describes as her "seven inch surprise" is the issue here

Although given men's inability to estimate lengths correctly, punters might have been disappointed to find the "surprise" not quite the dimensions promised

Can I tell my "Why are women bad at parking?" joke here

BlackbirdsInaPie it is going to be about being lied to over how long 7inches is, isn't it

I have two sons and I want to raise them to be the best they can be

I have a son and I feel the same way, stopfuckingshouting. I really hope that my son grows up to respect women, and respect women's space, and not to always, always put his needs way above theirs, even when it makes no difference to him but damages them, unlike Tara and supporters.

On the male suicide thing: the main national charity on male suicide was founded and is run by a woman, and staffed by women as well as men, and women do a lot of the fundraising, even though the services are focussed on men. Where are all the men raising money for rape crisis shelters?

Plenty of men keeping them in business, Annie. I expect they see that as doing their bit.

because it is a question of organising and agitating for such services to exist

Which is what those terrible second-wave feminists Women's Liberationists, did for women back in the 1970s. You don't think a benign government set up Rape Crisis centres, do you? And funded them lavishly? Ho ho ho

Yes, those very same 2nd wavers such as Professor Greer, who is now "old" and "doesn't understand" contemporary feminism, and needs to get out of the way, according to public transactivists.

Do we know that Tara isn't segregated in the women's prison?

I don't think we do noble but if she is why couldn't she be segregated in a men's prison?

So good to hear the voice of "old school" feminists like me

I strongly suspect the claims on that website about her penis aren't truthful, otherwise the newspapers would be all over them. There is probably information in the medical reports that we aren't being told, for obvious reasons.

MoJ statement:

“It is longstanding policy to place offenders according to their legally recognised gender. However, our guidelines allow room for discretion and, in such cases, medical experts will review the circumstances in order to protect the emotional wellbeing of the person concerned.

Our top priority is the safety and welfare of those in our custody and decisions relating to the location of transgender prisoners are taken by a range of people including psychologists, healthcare professionals and prison staff.”

Maybe those people know a bit more about it than we do?

Charlie because segregation in a men's prison would keep Tara safe but not validate Tara's identity or give Tara access to vulnerable women, that's why.

Exactly Annie I was just wondering why noble thinks it's relevant.

The 'access to vulnerable women' is the sticking point isn't it? If she is segregated and has no access, then the validating her gender identity bit doesn't bother me (and I understand it could be vital to a trans woman's mental health).

So if she is segregated, then all the arguments about vulnerable women disappear.

Well, no, because as we know from previous cases, trans women with working penises and a history of violence aren't automatically segregated from vulnerable women prisoners, or kep apart from the general women prison population.

If Tara is segregated in a men's facility, then all the arguments about Tara's safety disaapear. And if validate Tara's gender identity as a woman was so vital to Tara's mental health, why is Tara keeping and advertising a penis, and has not bothered to ever apply for a legal change of gender?

There were links to complaints about her being much taller though.

She is a dominatrix too. I bet the women in her prison feel very safe with a tall, violent dominatrix transwoman, who loves sex and with her seven inch surprise.

The interesting thing about that website is that the only review that mentions a penis was in 2012.

In any event, it looks as if her tastes run to men anyway, which suggests that women are probably in less danger from her than they are from dominant lesbians.

Well, no, because as we know from previous cases, trans women with working penises and a history of violence aren't automatically segregated from vulnerable women prisoners, or kep apart from the general women prison population.

But Tara was. She was placed in a men's prison, and it looks like the prison service would have reviewed her case before making that decision. From what I read in the news, she only mixed with the male population for 1 hour a day.

So given that the prison service previously reviewed her case and decided a women's prison wasn't suitable, what's to say that they would now just hold up their hands and dump her in a cell with bunch of women, when there are other options?

I thought it was fairly well known that much of the rape committed in prisons is by men who are not normally gay. So I'm not sure that it is sensible to assume the women will be fine because Tara is gay, unfortunately.

Hermione

This is an interesting thread and it's challenging - and I have learnt a bit for sure

However I have been at some of the statements and assumptions - and the fact that no one calls them on it

The comparison to lady boys
An assumption that trans will rape by virtue of the fact they have a penis
The assumption that trans men to women are by default patriarchal
And the disturbing statement that trans people are mentally ill and that their actions are not dissimilar to people that deliberately make themselves disabled

These views dont sit with me and I am pretty disappointed to read them here