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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think if you have a penis, you do not belong in a woman's prison

990 replies

RickRoll · 29/10/2015 19:15

There is to be an appeal tomorrow, at Bristol Crown Court, regarding the decision to send violent criminal Tara Hudson, who works as a transsexual prostitute (still has a penis, as 80% of transsexuals do), to male prison. Tara wants to go to a female prison.

AIBU to think that if you have a penis, you should go to male prison?

People are arguing that Tara is at risk of sexual assault, but Tara is not unique in this - lots of (non transgender) men are vulnerable, and the prison service has a responsibility to protect them.

OP posts:
LibrariesGaveUsP0wer · 30/10/2015 20:50

Can I ask a genuine question?

Lots of people have said she should be in a woman's prison because it's safer. Assuming the women are perfectly able to work out she is trans, can I ask why? Because I can't think of a single reason why she is safer in a women's prison that doesn't have the balancing answer that the women are safer without her there. Any reason she is safer is also a reason women are safer without pre op (in particular ) trans women. It's not even as of she's not a violent offender.

Original poster
RickRoll · 30/10/2015 20:52

Treebuskers, yes, if you google 'tia star caps' you can find the pictures.

OP posts:
howtorebuild · 30/10/2015 20:53

I read she is psychotic, why was she not put in a secure psychiatrist unit and given treatment?

Original poster
RickRoll · 30/10/2015 20:53

www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Abuse-parcel-transgender-says-close-friend-Tara/story-28077819-detail/story.html
"Tara will not be coping very well, she's such a fragile soul, she's so soft and gentle that this is going to change her for life."

Soft and gentle with nine convictions for violent crime???

OP posts:
5madthings · 30/10/2015 20:54

I don't think anybody saying she should be in a male prison is saying it's Ok that she may be subjected to abuse. Infact I have read lots of posts saying of course the prison service must keep her safe but there has to be a way of doing so that isn't detrimental to women's only prisons.

I get that she defines as female, lives as female but biologically she has a penis and functions as a man sexually as in has penetrative Sex with others, even if it's with men.

It isn't Ok for female spaces to be Co opted like this.

So we need gender neutral spaces? That goes for all areas of life not just prisons.

CharlieSierra · 30/10/2015 20:57

But Libraries her needs trump those of the real women in prison, naturally, because she's a man trans Hmm

noeffingidea · 30/10/2015 20:58

There is a transgender prison in Italy. I can see that being a good solution.

Ohbehave1 · 30/10/2015 20:59

Why the fuck are people complaining that trans women want access to the same women only facilities as women who were born as such.

Good to see the 1950's still alive and well on Mn.

HermioneWeasley · 30/10/2015 21:00

Ohbehave, you and I have a different opinion about what "hate" means. You think it is hateful to say that men aren't women. I see that as stating facts.

I have no problem with individuals wearing clothes that traditionally are worn by the other sex and altering themselves to appear more like the sex they identify with. I have been a vocal trans ally in the past, and wish trans people happy and peaceful lives.

I do not think that trans women are women in the same way that I am and that pretending they are helps nobody. For example, trans women will need prostate checks in later life. I will need mammograms and cervical smears. These are biological facts. There are TW who agree with this stance, but their voices aren't heard. If you see that as hateful then so be it, but I will not be silenced by cries of "TERF" which is just another way of getting women to shut up and make things more acceptable for men.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer · 30/10/2015 21:01

Well quite Charlie. I can't find an answer that doesn't boil down to that.

That cis privilege list is enraging. Large tranches of that are male privilege. Trans women lose male privilege. But that one still has a massive sense of entitlement over it. I mean, the jobs and the violence ones? Give me fucking strength.

Trans activists (as opposed to normal people who happen to be trans ) have a lot in common with father for justice etc in some ways don't they.

CoteDAzur · 30/10/2015 21:03

"This is not a woman's rights issue based on the fact that this person was born as a male"

We are talking about the rights of the women who will be stuck in prison with this person and that seven-inch cock. Or have you forgotten that there are other people involved than her precious snowflaky highness Tara Hudson?

Also FYI "born as male" is redundant. Despite the artificial hormones, boob job, fillers, etc Tara Hudson will always be male, since that word means "of the sex that produces sperm with which a female may be inseminated to produce offspring".

PurpleDaisies · 30/10/2015 21:04

Why the fuck are people complaining that trans women want access to the same women only facilities as women who were born as such.

Women only facilities include rape crisis centres. Do you think it is appropriate that women using these safe havens should have to share them with people who have a penis?

Ohbehave1 · 30/10/2015 21:04

Hermione. So a trans woman is worth less than a "real" woman. They shouldn't have access to the same facilities because by some cruel twist of fate they got a Y chromosome instead of an X one.

Sorry, but equality is about all being equal. No one being better or more important than anyone else. Or are some people more equal than others ?

HermioneWeasley · 30/10/2015 21:06

ohbehave the concern is now the situation is thT anyone who "identifies as a woman" (whatever that means) now is legally a woman, regardless of their physical status.

You really cannot see ANY issue with anyone make bodied having access to women's changing rooms and showers, prisons (as in this case), refuges, rape crisis centres, hospital wards etc? Seriously - nothing about that troubles you?

Because it's happening . 4 women (one 15 years old) assaulted at refuges in Canada by a male bodied person who was granted access because he identifies as a woman.

A rape crisis centre that nearly closed after it refused a TW as a volunteer

Girls' swim team forced to change and shower in the disabled cubicle after a male bodied person who identifies as a woman insisted on using the showers at the same time they did every week.

If you don't find these problematic then we have no common ground.

HermioneWeasley · 30/10/2015 21:08

ohbehave equal doesn't mean the same. Or do you think we should have no sex segregated spaces at all?

Original poster
RickRoll · 30/10/2015 21:09

" So a trans woman is worth less than a "real" woman."

Nope, they are worth the same as a man.

True equality.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 30/10/2015 21:09

Sorry, but equality is about all being equal. No one being better or more important than anyone else. Or are some people more equal than others ?

You have confused equality with treating everybody the same.

CharlieSierra · 30/10/2015 21:09

Well it certainly appears that a number of people think that transwomen should be more equal than womenOhbehave

CoteDAzur · 30/10/2015 21:09

"So a trans woman is worth less than a "real" woman"

This has NOTHING to do with worth.

It is not because Tara Hudson is worthless that she should not be incarcerated with women. It is because Tara Hudson is a male with a 7-inch bloody cock.

Ohbehave1 · 30/10/2015 21:11

Why the fuck are people complaining that trans women want access to the same women only facilities as women who were born as such.

Women only facilities include rape crisis centres. Do you think it is appropriate that women using these safe havens should have to share them with people who have a penis?**
**
So a post op Yrans woman can't be raped? Or do you just think that they are not worth of the use of the facility

Original poster
RickRoll · 30/10/2015 21:13

This is not a post-op trans woman! It is a man with a seven-inch penis.

OP posts:
Ohbehave1 · 30/10/2015 21:13

Rickroll. Are you suggesting that men and women are equal. Or that trans women are just men and therefore less worthy.

MaudGonneMad · 30/10/2015 21:14

Why won't you answer the question, Ohbehave? Do you think women should have to share these spaces with people who have a penis?

PurpleDaisies · 30/10/2015 21:14

A post op trans woman does not have a penis. It is a good idea to read posts properly if you are going to quote them.

Original poster
RickRoll · 30/10/2015 21:14

A man with a pair of silicone breasts is still a man.

Just as a woman with a strap-on dildo is still a woman.

This doesn't take too much thinking about, surely?

OP posts:
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