Piercing baby's ears at 4 months

[Magic69]

I am not comfortable with this but I am Asian and in my culture all girls get their ears pierced before 6 months, some as young as 4 weeks. It is the norm and I myself had it done when I was 9 weeks.

I don't remember it and I have had no repercussions from it but I have my own daughter now and something which did not seem a big deal at the time, seems a big deal now.

She is 10 weeks and when she got her jabs and she started crying it broke my heart. My parents are planning to have her ears done when she is 4 months on a spiritual day and I am dreading it.

I have told my parents that I am not comfortable with it and listed my reasons, 1) the pain, 2) possible infections 3) I am not really a girly girl and don't see the need for earrings 4) feel better if she chose to get them done....etc

But my mother is a doctor and she dismissed all my concerns under the umbrella that I am being ridiculous and as a medical professional in the field for 40 odd ears she has never seen anyone come in with infections from pierced ears (in all fairness, her speciality is radiology). She said people will laugh at us and will think something was wrong and I will bring shame to the family.

This may also have something to do with my DS who loves dressing up, tutus and prefers girls toys- I let him do what he wants and wear what he likes and she sees my permissiveness as an inability to control my children and letting them 'go the wrong way'.

My DH says I am being silly and has dismissed my concerns as being over bearing. He says it is what Asian women do and we will have a lot of explaining to do if we choose not to get it done.

AIBU?

who the hell likens ear piercing to FGM? Seriously?? Thats completely outrageous and offensive.

I think at worst people see it as a class marker - a bit lower class on white kids, but for asian babies or maybe spanish looking babies it wouldnt have any connotations at all.

If anyone likens an ear piercing to abusive practices, they are being frankly hysterical.

I think it is a big deal. Punching a hole in someone is assault. The baby is not able to consent. None of my children have had their ears done, and don't want. How could I look them in the eye if they had said mum why did you let this happen, I don't like holes in my ears? They don't always close up.

but is it a culturally important/sensitive issue in your family HOTH, or were you able to make that decision free from cultural pressure?

frankly having people say ear piercing is child abuse really fucks me off as I have worked and and now volunteer with actual victims of child abuse and it massively trivialises the term. IMO.

Just to clarify - no, I do not think piercing a baby's ears is a great thing to do, and nor would I do it to my own baby. But likening it to FGM or calling it abuse is just ridiculous.

I come from a south american culture and all female babies in my home country have their ears pierced. I don't agree with it. But according to some people every single child in this country is a victim of child abuse. They aren't.

Note before I get jumped on I am obviously not saying that everything that is part of a 'culture' is immune from being called abuse.

If anyone likens an ear piercing to abusive practices, they are being frankly hysterical.

How about it I come round and pierce your ears while you're asleep? I think you'd look quite pretty with ear rings?

Hmm. There is a lot things that once were seen as quite acceptable in a culture, that now aren't. Just because everybody does it doesn't mean it is right.

Don't forget, not too many years ago, people decided that there were degrees of rape, a stranger rape could not be compared to rape within marriage. I used to read of those sorts of view many years ago. We now do not hold that as a view.

In fact sex is pretty common, it's only the consent that differs between sex and rape. Ear piercing is common, without consent it's assault. I use this as an analogy in a philosophical way as it depends both on consent for it to be acceptable.

I'm a bit of a free spirt bran yes lots of cultural pressure for all sorts of things, as in most families, but I don't care what people think of me, so perhaps it's less of an issue!

Your mum is completely wrong about no infections. I allowed my dd to get hers pierced aged 9 as I felt she was well-informed and would do a good job of cleaning them. She did, but they did get infected and needed medical intervention to get them out again. It was awful.

I can't imagine doing that with a baby.

Having said that, my dd still wants them done again immediately, I have no idea why.

My dd is in a culture where ear piercing is the norm for babies too and it was difficult to hold out. Now I wished I'd held out even longer!

I think at worst people see it as a class marker

Agreed. Which I think explains the rather overblown MN reaction seen on this thread. Offensive to the middle class sensibilities.

Having said all that the fear of infection is real and shouldn't be minimised, and it goes without saying that the OP should be the one to make the decision. Like Maybebabybee I don't think it's a great thing to do to a baby.

However, I think it's overstating the case to call it abusive or assault. And the comparisons with rape/FGM being flung around are ridiculous.

The comparison is one of consent. As a principle. Consent applies to lots of things. Would you force a fourteen year old to have her ears done? Ten? Five?

Just because lots of people do it, does not mean it is right.

people don't see it as an issue because that's seen as normal. But then, people were brought up once to see a lot of things as normal too and it's difficult to challenge the established order of things. I refer to "made in Dagenham" and "suffragette" to see just how other people who are subject to the same pressures see it as no big deal.

I was abused as a child but wasn't allowed my ears pierced. Ironic.

I had mine done as a teen, own choice. Then two years of infection and pain. Turns out I'm allergic to nickle and other metals.never again!

I come from a south american culture and all female babies in my home country have their ears pierced. I don't agree with it. But according to some people every single child in this country is a victim of child abuse. They aren't.

Following this logic, FGM should be considered acceptable because it happens to all young girls in some cultures.

Making holes in someone's body without their consent or a good medical reason is abusive. The fact that other forms of abuse or more damaging and prolonged doesn't make this OK.

Hitting a child on the leg and leaving a bruise is considered to be abusive yet the injury it causes is less severe than a hole through an earlobe.

Gold, read my full post. I specifically said I was obviously not saying that all cultural practices were perfectly fine. But by all means wilfully ignore that bit.

I also said I didn't think piercing a baby's ears was ok, if you'd read that bit.

People seem to be forgetting that there are hundreds of thousands of girls who have had their ears pierced, and the vast majority would be massively insulted to think a bunch of strangers on the internet considers their parents abusive for doing something that is pretty normal to them.

I'm sorry but comparing it to FGM is massively irresponsible.

I didn't compare to FGM

The fact that hundreds of thousands of people do it, doesn't make it OK.

Yes, and I never said it did, either. But continue ignoring that!

But according to some people every single child in this country is a victim of child abuse. They aren't.

If they had their ears pierced without giving consent, they are.

The numbers it happens to is irrelevant.

The same applies to methods of disciplining children in some cultures. Everybody does it but that doesn't make it OK.

....how many times do I have to say I never said it was ok.

I just don't believe ear-piercing qualifies as abuse.

I say this as I work with child abuse victims and I believe it massively trivialises what they go through, as I have said up thread.

You mentioned the fact that it happens to every child in one particular culture to back up your view that it isn't abuse.

The numbers it happens to are irrelevant.

It is abuse.

There are other, more severe, forms of abuse too but that doesn't change anything.

Tradition is used to justify a number of practices that taken outside of this context would seem ridiculous.

There is no logical or justifiable reason to inflict pain on a baby however brief and I cannot begin to fathom why anyone would pierce a baby's ears.

Remember tradition enables practices such as FGM, forced marriage and female subjugation.

I can see how difficult this is for the OP and being faced with an overwhelming support for this practice must be exceedingly hard.

However such practices continue simply because each generation is pressured into accepting the status quo and in the end it comes down to determined individuals who (often against huge opposition) say "no, I'm not participating in this practice just because it's been done for 10 generations".

OP, I hope you'll report back

like I said, my mum stood up to this 45 years ago and "culture" shite was probably worse back then?...so stand firm!

Absolutely yellowtulips that's why people liken it to FGM, rape etc.

often of course individuals who have been subject to various practices of which they have no control or consent do not see it as wrong, it's just tradition, or normal. That's why they continue to be complicit.

Why is rape wrong? It all hinges on lack of consent.

Arguing that some abusive practices are more harmful than others is a bit of a similar argument to "rape by a boyfriend is not really rape is it...and stranger rape is worse..."

No opinion on piercing of baby ears - it doesn't bother me one way or the other. It's your choice as her parents.

However lots of opinion on "medical professional for 40 years and never seen an infected ear piercing" - that's because they rarely require imaging.

I've been a medical professional for 17 years and have seen hundreds of children with infected piercings. The ones I still remember many years later are the 6 year old where the infection was so bad the lobe had swollen over the stud, embedding it in. She needed a general anaesthetic to remove the stud (we took them both out as the other was badly infected too) and her ears will be scarred for life. There's the 18 month old where the infection spread behind the ear into her mastoid cavity. She came in with an abscess behind her ear that was so large it was affecting her ability to breathe. It was also at risk of perforating through into her skull (and therefore brain). That was an emergency anaesthetic at 2am, while surgeons cleaned out the cavity and put drains in. I don't recall the many children that came in through A&E with lobe infections who needed help getting studs out (because of the pain - I used an ice spray to numb the lobe) and then a week of antibiotics. It was so common we had a prewritten discharge letter and prescription.

Your mother needs to wind her neck in - not her baby, not her decision - and her medical "opinion" is deeply flawed. If I felt strongly that a decision was right for my children I wouldn't give a moment's thought to the possibility that people might laugh at it, I'd do what I felt to be the best thing for my kids at the time.

that's why people liken it to FGM, rape etc.

People that liken it to that have no real grasp in reality. It's like saying the time a guy bumped into you and invaded your personal space in a deliberate bout of rudeness is the same thing as raping you, since you didn't consent to be touched.

Things you do without your child's consent for purely cosmetic reasons:

• Hair cuts
• Outfits

Are children who are dressed everyday by their parents abused? Why not? They didn't get consent to put a green shirt on their child.

What about children who get haircuts? They scream and cry at the barber shop because they don't like sitting still. Not really abuse though, is it?

Earrings are removable you can take them out and not wear them. I went years without wearing mine, then I put them back in when I felt like having them again.

You can't reverse FGM, you can't reverse rape.

Earrings have no emotional impact on a baby anymore than sucking on a nipple would. Or getting a rectal thermometer reading at the hospital.

What next? Touching a baby's genitals as you change their diaper is now sexual abuse?

Honestly.

The last time I checked, dressing my DSD or cutting her hair didn't involve any pain or risks of infection (not to mention tearing of her skin).

It's an invasive cosmetic procedure that has zero tangible benefit and in this instance the rationale is "tradition".

The point is not to compare these procedures per se but to point out that "tradition" is not a valid reason to subject a baby/child/woman to a painful, non beneficial, cosmetic practice just because it's become customary over a period of time.

I've not read the whole thread but I had my ears pierced as a baby and at 5 had to go to hospital as the butterfly backs got stuck in the back of my ears.

I'm no fan of babies with pierced ears but appreciate it is common in many cultures. Ultimately she is your dd so it's your decision