Piercing baby's ears at 4 months

[Magic69]

I am not comfortable with this but I am Asian and in my culture all girls get their ears pierced before 6 months, some as young as 4 weeks. It is the norm and I myself had it done when I was 9 weeks.

I don't remember it and I have had no repercussions from it but I have my own daughter now and something which did not seem a big deal at the time, seems a big deal now.

She is 10 weeks and when she got her jabs and she started crying it broke my heart. My parents are planning to have her ears done when she is 4 months on a spiritual day and I am dreading it.

I have told my parents that I am not comfortable with it and listed my reasons, 1) the pain, 2) possible infections 3) I am not really a girly girl and don't see the need for earrings 4) feel better if she chose to get them done....etc

But my mother is a doctor and she dismissed all my concerns under the umbrella that I am being ridiculous and as a medical professional in the field for 40 odd ears she has never seen anyone come in with infections from pierced ears (in all fairness, her speciality is radiology). She said people will laugh at us and will think something was wrong and I will bring shame to the family.

This may also have something to do with my DS who loves dressing up, tutus and prefers girls toys- I let him do what he wants and wear what he likes and she sees my permissiveness as an inability to control my children and letting them 'go the wrong way'.

My DH says I am being silly and has dismissed my concerns as being over bearing. He says it is what Asian women do and we will have a lot of explaining to do if we choose not to get it done.

AIBU?

"You could mention that many British people regard it in a similar vein to FGM, ie mulilation and abusive"

I am with Viking here. What an utterly ignorant comment. And whoever made it should be ashamed.

OP, please don't bring this into it. The only people who equate the the two apparently have no understanding of the full implications of FGM and the impact it has on women's lives.

In your situation, getting your husband on side seems to me to be the most promising strategy.

Haven't read it all but someone on the first page said their DD wasn't in pain but just shocked because it isn't painful. Wrong. I had my ears pierced as a teen and got the second holes pierced last year. yes it hurts! even for adults, but we can deal with the pain better. Saying a baby isn't in pain when being stabbed by a needle in the ear lobe is ridiculous. OP don't be pressurised intl anything. Your DD your rules. end of. This should be banned. It's cruel and looks stupid IMHO.

I'm on the fence on whether piercing baby's ears is ok or not as I also come from a culture where it's quite normal (though obviously OP it goes without saying that if you don't want it done, you absolutely should not get it done) but seriously, anyone here putting it on the same level as FGM needs a massive .

OP, I'm guessing you have your nose pierced as part of your culture too? If that is the case, and your daughter will probably be expect to have her's done later on too why not suggest that she gets her ears and nose done at the same time when she is older? I don't know when it would be acceptable for her to have her nose done but that could be a good delaying tactic to give you time to convince your husband.
I'm sorry you feel like you have no choice here, that must be awful. Bravo on standing up for your own opinions and your daughter's rights.

I'm fed up of reading about how women and children get such a shitty deal from certain cultures.

I feel for you OP, but I think you really need to make an example of this and stand your ground.

AuntieStella
Farandole
Lauriemarlow
Mabybabybee

I wish you had all read my post more closely. I was NOT saying that it was MY opinion that ear piercing of young girls was on a par with FGM!!

I was saying that she could use it as a negotiating tactic with her MIL because some people consider it to be abusive to alter a DCs body without their permission and although I don't think anyone would consider it to be as extreme or wrong as FGM, they may consider it to be a similar sort of crime ie. Both are bodily mutilation.

Regarding "making up infection statistics" you don't need to make them up! There is a genuine danger of blood bourne infections from piercing guns, as any prof body piercer will tell you.

With the other suggestions which were lies / exaggerations to her mother / making up arguments because they might work:
are you seriously saying that if your DC was in a situation you regarded as abusive you wouldn't tell minor relativly inconsequential lies to prevent the abuse if that was the only option?

As for the suggestions for negotiating tactics being ridiculous, of course they are!
But (no disrespect intended) OP's mother does not sound like the most logical / balanced / aware person!

Any questions??

Yanbu to not want this but I can see why you feel pressured.
My experience- I got my ears pierced when I was 5. I ended up in hospital with an infection in both ears with the right ear being so swollen the stud was imbedded in the lobe and couldn't be seen from the front. Very painful and scary having the whole thing pulled out from the other side. I'm allergic to gold so that's what caused it. Just to say just because your mum hasn't seen infections doesn't mean they don't happen.

My fourteen year old daughter had to spend several days in hospital after having studs removed from her ears because of infection; she had only just had them pierced, and I was not in favour of her having it done then anyway.
I saw several young girls with infected ears when I was teaching.

You don't want it done, wisely I think; she is your daughter; you say what happens.

I find your mother's views seriously worrying, particularly as she is a doctor.

I can see your POV totally. Being Asian I did DD1's ears when she was few weeks old. I was careful & took all precautions. There wasn't more than a tiny speck of blood. She healed in a few hours & LOVES her earrings everyday (she is now 8). DD2 is another story. Am choosing not to have her ears pierced. Firstly coz I don't like gunshot piercing as I've seen it cause problems. I can get a gold needle one done only in my own country & can't do it until I travel back. Having seen the hassles at school to remove/ tape earrings & then worry about the hole closing - I think I'd rather leave it until she is old enough to manage her earrings herself.

No pressure from family, the decision is mine to make.

Not sure this is useful but at this age it really doesn't hurt any more than a jab. And it doesn't bleed. Go for the gold wire piercing if you get that done. I can understand your family's resistance even though it really isn't their business. But it is a culturally important thing & can't be simply 'refused' without causing major offence. Having seen it done I'd say it's not worth the battle. Your DD won't be happy or sad either way.

Artistic
I'm NOT advocating piercing children, but IF someone is having a piercing they are far better having a professional body piercer in a piercing studio carry it out using a hollow single use needle & sterile auto laced Jewellery. Plus they've been trained in infection control and all manner of other things.... Much better than doing it with gold wire.

Maybe the pro piercer on this thread would like to advise?

"I wish you had all read my post more closely. "

Why? I said "as suggested as a comparison by at least one poster" (emphasis added). And you appear to be continuing to say that you intended to introduce it as a comparison, and that it is relevant to a debate on ear piercing.

I continue to think that it's a wrong and misplaced comparison (and I am not drawing any conclusions whatsoever about any particular poster's actual views, this is about whether it should be brought into ear piercing, even hypothetically ascribed to 'many British people' who think it "ie mutilation")

I don't like seeing the two things brought together as even a hypothetical comparison, because I find it such a scale apart. And will happily stand different to the "many British people" who differ on the comparison specifically, and generally on what is mutilation.

Just stand up for your DD, surely inflicting unnecessary pain on her comes higher up your list then offending your parents/DH?! If it were FGM they were proposing would you just stand by?!

Why is it an aspect of your culture? What's the significance of having/not having it done?

I would be concerned about infection. My babies would spit up all the time and milk always seemed to dribble into their necks and behind their ears.

We had to take a girl to A&E at guide camp because her ear had got infected, formed an access and then burst. She was too embarrassed to tell anyone about it before it burst and she became quite unwell.

What would be the implications of falling out with your family over this?

I'm inclined to say your baby your rules sounds like a difficult situation

Oh bloody hell, you're in a difficult situation there.

For the record, I've seen a number of rather nasty ear infections from ear piercings in young children, and a number of "imbedded" ones that needed medical input to remove. Though I particularly remember the baby who got an earring caught, and thus ended up with a torn earlobe. But then, unlike a radiologist, I see large numbers of babies and children with problems that don't require imaging. Most babies/children won't have a major problem...but quite a few do, for an invasive procedure that has zero medical benefit.

My mother was a teacher. In a small village school, it was a very rare month that some child wasn't suffering from an infection, or imbedded earring.

I am rather gobsmacked that a radiologist appears to be a believer in consent under duress when it comes to the bodily integrity of a baby. How bloody old is the woman? The theory that babies can't feel pain went out with the ark! (Okay, I think the dinosaurs were finally convinced in the 80s, which is actuallt frighteningly recent).

Wow, some strong opinions on this!

It's not the same as FGM.

The issue really OP I'm guessing is that it's not seen as a big deal to your family, it's like, everyone does it, why are you making this an issue? But for you you want to break the mould so to speak.

This must be very hard for you. I don't think you are unreasonable to not want it done. I also don't think your H is unreasonable to want it done either as it seems normal for him.

Don't know what to advise really, but I would say that if it is done, it will be OK. Sis lives in Spain and lots of little babies have it done there. If you were posting this on Spanish mumsnet you would get very different answers I expect!

I hope you work something out you are happy with OP, this must be very difficult to deal with.

I think the real issue here is your mother and your husband, not really the ear piercing thing.

In terms of having a baby's ears pierced, personally i would not do it, as they just don't "need it" and its not part of my culture. But I don't think there is anything wrong with it personally - its a moment of pain. Like jabs I suppose, only its not saving them from harm the way jabs do so its harder to justify.

My daughter wanted her ears pierced at age 5 and I let her. There was a little hassle afterwards because she had to take them out for PE at school, and even though she had them done at the start of the summer holidays, having them out for the whole day of PE I would find they were starting to grow over, so I had to teach her to take them out herself which she got the hang of but a couple of the girls in her year who had also had them done didn't, and they ended up having to take them out and let them grow over. So in a way, if they are likely to want them done, the sooner the better so that at least when they get to an age where they have to take them out, they can be taken out without growing over.

Still not really a justification for getting them done - however if it is a big part of your culture and she is likely to be the only one who doesn't have them done, she might decide she does want to get them done at around an age when she is then having to take them out for health and safety reasons.

If you feel strongly against it then I think you should have a say - I guess your husband should too. Body autonomy is an issue of course, however I personally feel less strongly about it for ear piercing than I do circumcision, probably due to the fact it is a tiny hole in the ear that grows over if you want it to. I know it leaves a slight mark, but its no biggie generally.

From my own point of view it felt good for me to wait till my daughter asked, then let her, rather than get her to wait till she was 18 like my mother did (and she acted like it was some massive favour that I was now allowed to get my ears pierced when in actual fact, I was 18 and could do whatever the fuck I liked, thanks mum, so to prove the point I got my nose pierced too) or do her before she asked.

Could you tell them to wait / postpone it later?

Reading this thread has made me so sad. It must be truly hideous to grow up in such "cultures".

She's your daughter and if you don't want it doing you stand up to him and also tell him that ds will follow all customs if your dd has to.

Personally culture or not I think it looks disgusting and chavvy on babies, but that is just my opinion.

Also, there is the hygiene to consider as pp have said. Just tell them all to fuck off.

This may sound extreme, but I would be mentioning 'divorce' and 'supervised visits'.

I think it is cruel and abusive to harm a baby for 'decorative' reasons.

Also, you don't seem to have shared views on parenting.

I have at least 4 earrings in each ear. My choice.

My son asked if he could have an earring (age 9). I took him to chat with a piercer. He was going to get it done at the start of that summer holiday, but lost interest.

My "rule" is..

If any of my kids want something like earrings, THEY have to ask for it to be done. Obviously, I will be with them. I will make sure they are told about pain and aftercare. But it is their body. Their choice.

Your DH and his family sound like controlling bullies. What else will be unacceptable?
Will they try and put her through FGM, as mentioned above?
Will you be allowed to get a job?
Show your face in public?
Chat to other men?

Which things are acceptable to you?

My ds has long hair. Many people assume he is a girl. He corrects them. The world carries on. My dd had very little hair for the first year. She wore pretty, girly clothes. It was obvious she was a girl. Still is!

There are plenty of ways of looking girly. Pretty hair clips. Pink. Pink everywhere.

And does it matter if somebody gets a child's gender wrong? If they are out and need a toilet, they go in with whichever adult is with them.

I don't think there is much difference between girls and boys, before secondary school age. At the moment, dd is wearing a green sweater and a pair of jeans. Digging in some mud in the garden. Ds is knitting. They are both happy. Neither have holes in their ears.

Personally I wouldn't pierce a baby's ears but if it is the 'done thing' culturally it is probably better to do it when the child is a baby and therefore isn't going to fiddle with them with dirty hands while they are healing or have to take them out before they are properly healed for school or sport.

Do we really have to use the word 'chavvy'?

do you live in the UK, OP? Then your family must have noticed that most babies do NOT have their ears pierced and this is not a sign that they are all boys. So the 'people will laugh at my daughter and think she is a boy' argument does not hold water.

(and even if they did think she's a boy, so what?)

You could mention that many British people regard it in a similar vein to FGM, ie mulilation and abusive and will therefore look at your family with disgust and ostracize you

Needa I did read your posts, several times. I think your suggestion that the OP should tell her parents that her DD will be looked at with disgust, will be ostracised, will be looked down at by British white people, is not helpful to the OP in the slightest, will only go to cause a greater divide between the OP's community and greater society, and frankly says more about you than about the OP's family.

Outside of MN I have never come across anyone who draws an analogy between ear piercing and FGM. You have to be a complete idiot to draw that analogy. Even circumcision should not, according to the WHO, be compared to FGM.

Why should the OP use arguments that only appeal to Daily Mail readers?