Piercing baby's ears at 4 months

[Magic69]

I am not comfortable with this but I am Asian and in my culture all girls get their ears pierced before 6 months, some as young as 4 weeks. It is the norm and I myself had it done when I was 9 weeks.

I don't remember it and I have had no repercussions from it but I have my own daughter now and something which did not seem a big deal at the time, seems a big deal now.

She is 10 weeks and when she got her jabs and she started crying it broke my heart. My parents are planning to have her ears done when she is 4 months on a spiritual day and I am dreading it.

I have told my parents that I am not comfortable with it and listed my reasons, 1) the pain, 2) possible infections 3) I am not really a girly girl and don't see the need for earrings 4) feel better if she chose to get them done....etc

But my mother is a doctor and she dismissed all my concerns under the umbrella that I am being ridiculous and as a medical professional in the field for 40 odd ears she has never seen anyone come in with infections from pierced ears (in all fairness, her speciality is radiology). She said people will laugh at us and will think something was wrong and I will bring shame to the family.

This may also have something to do with my DS who loves dressing up, tutus and prefers girls toys- I let him do what he wants and wear what he likes and she sees my permissiveness as an inability to control my children and letting them 'go the wrong way'.

My DH says I am being silly and has dismissed my concerns as being over bearing. He says it is what Asian women do and we will have a lot of explaining to do if we choose not to get it done.

AIBU?

I think the problem is that a lot of the suggested options such as health visitor, legalities of red books / parents consenting etc is that OP would face a massive backlash from all her family. This may make her life very, very unpleasant and on balance she may feel that the result was not worthwhile.

Standing up to your family on behalf of your kids now will be good practice, if in the future your kids want to do other things that are untypical (like if your son wants to study ballet, or your daughter to play football, for example.)

I am particularly thinking about your son who enjoys dressing-up, as he may continue to like similar things and will need your love and support with that.

YANBU, but you know you need to get it done. As soon as I saw your post about being Tamil I understood the pressure you're under.

At this point, you need to look at risk and reward (just like you do the pain of the shots). The risk to your daughter from getting her ears pierced is minimal. The reward is (at this time) cultural acceptance and an easier life for her (and you). It's not fair, but when she's old enough she will make the decision for herself anyway (to take them out or leave them in).

I'm sorry you're being forced this way. If you had your husbands support I know it would be different :(

OP, you said you posted because you were looking for support. I want to reassure you that your family's attitude to women's rights and their dismissal of your opinions as a mother are probably not shared by the huge majority of British people. Although there are some differing opinions on ear piercing, I think everyone agrees that your wishes as DD's mother should be more highly valued by your Husband and MIL.

With regards to the 'Red Book' being needed, I'm afraid this does not apply. See this document:
www.cieh.org/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=47704

YANBU!
Stick your baby in the tightest sling you can find, and do not let any of the piercing brigade so much as touch her until they realise you're not backing down.
She's a baby. She has no choice in the matter. And putting her through unnecessary pain in the name of vanity is beyond wrong.
If it was me, I would be telling my DM, DH and anyone else who wanted to mutilate my baby's ears to get to fuck!!! But I understand why you are in a difficult place to be able to do that.

My nieces are Indian Muslim and have still not had their ears pierced. They are 8 and 9! So not all cultures are the same

Just a thought - most nurseries and schools don't allow earrings anyway, so could you maybe go st that angle with your family saying there is no point in having it done as you are going to have to take them out and they will heal up?

I'm a professional body piercer.

I only work with single use needles, never piercing guns, yet regardless of culture I would flat out refuse to pierce a baby's ears. It goes against my personal and professional ethics, as the baby can't speak for itself.

I appreciate the cultural pressure you're under, OP, but please stick up for your little girl.

OP I assume you live in the UK? So could you use an alternative cultural argument? You are surrounded by British culture, and the vast majority of people here disapprove of babies having their ears pierced, as this thread demonstrates. So yes, maybe other Tamil Asians may think it's odd if your DD doesn't have holes in her ears, but most of the other people you are surrounded by will have the opposite view. Would your family be happy for you to be disapproved of and judged by strangers every day?

In my opinion it is abuse to inflict pain on a child without the being a clinical need. I think it's only a mater of time before ear piercing in babies is made illegal.

If you are going to have DD's ears pierced then please have it done properly with a needle rather than with a plastic "gun" that can harbour blood borne particles and cannot be sterilised.

YANBU

I completely agree with you and don't think she should have to have it done. You are in a difficult position though and it doesn't sound like you have much rl support. I would feel just the same as you and agree with what has been said.

I basically just wanted to say though, for a bit of balance, that if you do go through with it, whilst it would be upsetting it wouldn't be the end of the world and she won't remember it. You sound like a lovely mum.

If you can stop it then great, but don't beat yourself up about it if you can't. Remember this though because there may be bigger battles down the line and 'shame' may be used as a tactic again. I would be quite weary about what is expected of your dd in the future.

Yanbu. At all.

Their reasoning is ridiculous. Why would your mum have seen an infected ear in her work? It's very unlikely. Sounds like she is using her position to black mail you. No one will think she is a boy, even if they do...so what?

I have my ear pierced at 8 months. Don't remember it.

However I refused to get dds done. The difference is that my mum is actually quite mortified that she did it now.

Dd had her ears pierced at 7. She asked at 5, but I told her it would be sore (she doesn't have a great pain threshold) and I wanted her to think long and hard about it. After two years of asking questions, then saying she hadn't decided, she wanted them doing. So I took her. Didn't even hurt her that much.

It was important to me that she had autonomy over her own body and chose herself. I hate that culture is used as an excuse to do certain things to other people. However I do understand why the culture is making you feel helpless.

I think it's important you stand up for her. But it's all well and good me saying that. Sometimes it's not that simple.

I understand suggesting the HV just because it's an actual person that is outside the family.

As an aside, we followed all the instructions, cleaned them etc. Dd still got an infection and has had one since, so it does happen.

I hate pierced ears on babies, they are people not possessions to be customised as we wish.
Resist and stay strong.

It's dam right cruel and abuse in my eyes, tell her to go sling her hook.

"You could mention that many British people regard it in a similar vein to FGM, ie mulilation and abusive"

Ear piercing is nothing whatsoever like FGM.

Either in the nature of the action or in the repudiation of it.

OP: It would be unwise to bring a comparison of this sort into these circumstances. (I would say wrong to make the comparison at all).

Your mother's comment about never seeing infected ears is ridiculous - children with infected ears are not referred to radiographers! I am a primary school teacher and have seen some hideous examples of infections.

I am also concerned that a medical practitioner has no regard for bodily autonomy.

This is about the rights of you and your child being trampled all over in the name of culture - good for you for saying no.

Good luck OP, it's very brave to try to protect your child and do what you think is best for her.

I too believe that ear piercing on a baby is abusive and mutilation, as I am still waiting for an explanation on how it is done in the best interest of the child.

YANBU. Don't let them take her. You are her mum and you know what is best for her.

Good luck.

Hi Magic,

I married in to a culture where it is normal for a girl to have her ears pierced as a baby, often at birth. Part of the reason is that she is given gold earrings as presents when she is born and so it is expected that she wear them. i think some people also like to make it obvious that the baby is a girl to avoid offence when anyone thinks she is a boy. All of which IMHO is stupid.

My DD had her ears pierced by the nurse at the hospital right after being born when I was still away with the fairies after a GA.

Both my parents cried when they found out.

I don't think you will convince them of the wrongness of it as it is so culturally ingrained and is normal to them. They will just list all of the babies who had it done and how it never hurt any of them blah blah blah.

I think you would have more luck with practical concerns, i.e. the baby's ears are so tiny and they move so much that it will be wonky and have to be redone anyway. Hygiene concerns might work.

How is your relationship with your MIL? If you can, convince her over a friendly chat with a cup of tea and then she will sort out everyone else. They then think that it was their idea all along.

I took DD's earrings out when she was a few months old as she kept pulling them and it was quite frankly dangerous as they were catching on her clothing and if she had managed to pull out one of the butterfly backs she almost certainly would have swallowed it.

The holes were also completely wonky and awful so would have to have been redone anyway. I would never ever recommend piercing a baby's ears.

Are you planning to put your DD in nursery any time soon? I am not sure about in the UK but here nurseries will not take responsibility for gold earrings and you have to take them out then anyway.

DD is now 5 and the holes have closed up. I will let her have her ears pierced again when she is old enough to make the decision for herself, so not younger than 12 in any case. For weddings and stuff she just wears bracelets and pendants. No one has noticed that she doesn't wear earrings.

I appreciate that you are in a difficult position and have little irl support but, realistically, you have two options. They clearly won't listen to reason so you won't change their minds. You either stand up to your family and point blank refuse to have her ears pierced or you let it happen.
I firmly believe that piercing baby's ears is physical abuse and there should be legislation to prevent it, whether there are cultural factors at play or not. Personally, I couldn't stay in a relationship with a man who wanted to do that to his child, especially against the mother's wishes. What would happen if you told your husband that you simply refuse to go along with this? Are you frightened of him?

Perhaps tell her if she take her without your consent you will report her to the gmc for assault on your child. It will have to be investigated, she may worry it will affect her work. Disregard for consent is a big thing! If parents disagree on vaccination it usually goes to court.

I am also concerned that a medical practitioner has no regard for bodily autonomy.

Me too

Needa, I can't believe you are suggesting the OP should make stuff up in order to win an argument with her family. Surely you either have good reasons, or you don't? Inventing statistics over the risk of infection, saying the child will be perceived as chavvy when she's clearly Tamil, or that ear piercing is offensive to Christians/Catholic - WTF. The OP's family will ridicule her with good reason if she rolls out these bonkers arguments. And as for the suggestion to make the baby wear clip-ons, are you nuts? Clip-ons are so painful - ear piercing is like a spa treatment by comparison.

OP, you are not unreasonable at all but I'm afraid I don't have good advice for you. I had my ears pierced as a child (by my older sister, using a sewing needle and an ice cube!) and while I was old enough to remember it, I don't remember any pain. However they did get infected later in life, and I had them done again much later in life and they are now fine. My DH is Asian and he and my MIL wanted DD to get her ears pierced as a baby, but I just refused and they let it go very quickly. I'm not Asian though, so there was no community/cultural value in it for me, and I just don't like the looks of pierced ears on babies.

Ear piercing has really fallen out of favour in the UK, so you are going to get a lot of aggressive responses on this thread. It is still considered the norm in many countries (Spain, parts of the US) so you would probably get a very different response there.

Finally I find the analogy to FGM deeply offensive and ignorant.

"Perhaps tell her if she take her without your consent you will report her to the gmc for assault on your child"

This isn't going to be relevant here. The child's father wants to get them done and he can give valid consent. And in the scenario described by OP earlier in the thread, this isn't going to end up anywhere near a court because they do not intend to use a paid practitioner.

The key issue is about the relationships within the family. OP's DH has backed her up in a number of preferences to date (with regard to upbringing of DS) but doesn't support her on this one. It's easy for people in a culture where piercing typically takes place at an older age to side with the parent who wants to do something closer to their own cultural norm.

But piercing isn't remotely on a par with FGM (as suggested as a comparison by at least one poster up the thread). Even if you think it should not be legal here, right now it is. And one parents wants it to happen. There aren't going to be objective killer arguments that will win the day on this.

How a couple handles a dispute on which they have opposing viewpoints and on which no compromise is possible is always tough. Is this the first time, OP, that you and DH have faced such circumstances?

Firstly for you OP, what a shitty position to be in. I think you will know by now that you are definitely not being unreasonable. The pressure that your family are putting you under is utterly wrong.

Also - and I'm trying to phrase this in a way that doesn't offend anyone - I think that it is impossible and unfair for people to expect that a foreign culture can wholly survive in another country. Elements of it will always need to adapt. When your mother / MIL came to the UK they must have expected that there were elements of their culture that might have to be modified over time. Your DM's daughter - you - have grown up with different influences than she did and as a result have different opinions on the ear piercing issue. This is natural.

It is YOUR decision to make. Your decision to start new practices for your family. Your role in the future when your baby has her own babies to support her and advocate her wishes in whatever she chooses.

I don't have much in they way of practical advice. I've had Tamil friends and have a small amount of understanding as to the strict cultural pressures that come with it. I therefore realise that it's far easier for us to tell you to resist the pressure than it is for you to actually do it. I just wanted you to know that if you do make (what I believe) to be the right decision to not have your baby's ears pierced then you will be supported here.