To be concerned about my daughter

[kimmybus]

She is in her 20s and doing nothing with her life.

She left school at 18 and that was it. She has suffered with depression, anxiety, panic attacks. I dont know how I can get her to snap out of it, weve spent thousands on private therapists, she has been on different medications, we brought her a dog to give her some company. Nothing has worked and its getting a bit tedious having someone who is miserable all the time.

She started volunteering for a local organisation about six months ago. She gets on well with her boss but she is using her. She changes her hours every week for when its convenient for her. So some weeks she will work every hour under the sun and others she will be sat at home 5 days a week.

She is also very overweight. She is on a diet but whenever I see her she is eating crisps, sweets and wonders why she is big.. She complains she hasnt got a boyfriend and she cant see why that is.

She is also very secretive. She never tells me where she is going and takes hours to go to the supermarket or out to buy a bottle of wine. She very occasionally goes out and socialises but otherwise sits in her room doing nothing. She smokes and we have warned her about the implications of this but she doesnt listen.

She wont get a proper job. She wants to stay volunteering as her boss as filled her head with an idea that she will get a job. There is possibility of this but it is a slim one. She is living off some money she was left by family member who died a few years ago and a small amount of benefits. We dont charge her rent, pay for her food and brought her a car.

Im just disapointed in her. She wont do anything with her life. She complains we favourtise her sibling who is very different to her and has had a succesful career after going to university which we wanted for her. We paid for private education and she threw it away. She wouldnt go to school because she was getting bullied because of her size but the solution was in her hands and she just chose to stuff her face instead because she says it helps her cope.

How can I get her to finally stop and get a hold of her life?

Yep missed that one myself. The boss won't say it's likely for no reason.

I used to take on temps in my last role and I only ever said there was a chance of a permanent job at the end if there was a real possibility of it.

Although I don't like what you have said in your post, I will try to give some helpful encouraging advice. First up, I have suffered from Mental illness for the last 20 years, as have my 2 eldest dc. When my dc are ill, I know how to help them, because I have been there. But I do get exhausted. It is very mentally draining. Yes MI is a chemical imbalance, but there are times when you need to push yourself out of your dark hole. I know exercise and healthy eating helps my illness so I do it. Like a lot of illnesses you have to play your part to make yourself better. I understand your thoughts on working, because at the moment she is doing unpaid work, and you have concerns she is being taken advantage of. I don't know if it's the righ thing to be paying part of her way for her, I would get professional advice on that. I don't have experience with overeating but I can see he it is frustrating for you. I would stop buying junk and not have it in the home. Your dd needs to feel your love and your 100% support. Please don't compare her with your other dc it isn't fair and completely unnecessary.

Mermaid the daughter's volunteering sounds very positive though - yet OP belittles it because it isn't paid work. I'm not sure how the daughter is supposed to survive without OP helping financially - although perhaps the daughter could get on the register for social housing which would presumably entitle her to more disability benefits and housing benefit. I think the daughter getting away from the constant criticism would do her mental health the world of good.

Your OP is awful :(

Bless all the people who think this can only be a reverse.

Are you actually reading what people are saying to you? If she had broken her leg, would you ask why she can't go for a run?

When I tore my calf muscle and couldn't walk (or even stand up or get out of my desk chair, really) for nearly ten weeks, most of which was term time in the middle of my A-levels, my mother actually tried refusing to bring me food up to my room a few times. I ended up either going without for many hours at a time or shuffling down the stairs on my arse and increasing the damage (and presumably extending the time I was stuck in that fucking room instead of being able to get back to school).

Some people are just fucking twisted.

She isn't "miserable" she is depressed. You cannot just "snap out of" that!

I suggest that you educate yourself wrt what you are dealing with i.e depression

I dont understand her illness because I havent experienced it myself so I cant I haven't experienced it either, yet I manage to support my friends who have depression. It's not hard to have sympathy & educate yourself.

smillas fuck! That's awful. I don't think it is a reverse. The OP has a very similar mindset to my mum:

Anorexia isn't real
You eat too much, it's disgusting (this was at max of 500 cals a day)
Depression is cured by cutting out everything but fruit and veg
You're ridiculous if you think you have a broken bone (this was on two occasions, both times I did have an untreated broken bone for over 24 hours)
Your GCSE results are shit (my lowest grade was a B)
It goes on and on.

sorry that sounded very self-pitying!

Permanentlyexhausted hit the nail on the head. If you really want advice listen to that and ignore the rest. Your daughter needs love. She needs someone in this world who loves and accepts and believes in her No Matter What. I think you DO love her despite what others are saying. YANBU to be concerned. Depression can lead to suicide at worst and the loss of beautiful, precious time on this earth at best. Your daughter should be enjoying her life.

You sound worried for her future and exhausted by your worries and frustrated that all your efforts have apparently come to nothing. And it sounds like your daughter is wallowing in self pity which can make even someone you love hard to love. Self-pity is also a self-defence when you just don't have the energy or optimism left in you to make positive changes or believe that things can change. But that's not her - that is the depression. That's what it does to people. It IS a bubble too, one that traps instead of protects. IME also sometimes the drugs and therapies won't work until self-esteem/general health have been improved enough to handle tackling the painful underlying emotional issues.

It is very frustrating dealing with someone who is depressed or mentally ill. You should get some support for yourself; counselling, a support group, whatever works for you to get some distance and relief from your emotions so you can offer effective support and distinguish between the illness and your daughter. As everyone has said (rightly) depression IS an illness and should be treated AS an illness. If you want to help you do need to find out about depression/anxiety and what it really means beyond a medical label, and how to support and empower someone suffering from depression and anxiety.

And you need to decide how involved you want to be/can be - what are you actually prepared to do to help your daughter? Does she want your help? What help would she be prepared to accept? What does she want to change? You are not taking on an easy task if you decide to be the one who helps her turn things around (as you are already well aware of). Make plans together according to her wishes with goals she can manage. Take baby steps and only baby steps towards recovery. Remember that you can't change your daughter - she has to do that herself, she needs to do that herself. All you can do is provide opportunities and encouragement for positive change.

A friendly slimming club or personal trainer could be better than you are at helping her change her eating habits and achieve her desire to lose weight. Could you find a good personal coach to support her/you if it's too much for you?

Also don't underestimate the power of Simple Things. And a little loving Motherly guidance. If your daughter is willing then do things with her like walking that dog of hers in the great outdoors; nature is a mighty healer of souls and provider of bonding opportunities (and there might be a nice pub snack in it). Spend time with her and get to know her all over again for who she is now, a game of cards and a glass of wine or something with someone who loves her and wants to be in her company when she's isolating herself, a manicure or trip to the hair dresser. Prepare(or buy) a healthy delicious snack every day so she gets some nutrition and make sure she has healthy, instant and tempting choices available in that cake-and-coke infested fridge (leave a note on the door with a suggestion covered in kisses). Vitamins and supplements can be beneficial if she is willing to try some; serve them up with that snack. Remind her to rest/pace herself when she works all hours (or she'll spend a week immobilised with burn-out). Learn to listen, and just listen, without judging or advising (then say all the things you wanted to say to your counsellor/friend).

Sorry that was epic, you're in a terrible place and I really feel for you both.

Wow, my mother was like you,
would it be helpful for you to know that I now keep her at arms length, no matter how she behaves.

I quite simply can't take the emotional strain of having a proper relationship with the woman who spent the first 20 years of my life belittling me, trying to make me ashamed for having MH problems because she was too emotionally stunted to realise you can't just 'snap out of it'.

I hope for your daughters sake, when she's finally free of your black cloud of ill informed bullshit, that she moves far away and doesn't force herself to try and have a relationship with you out of obligation.

Am I honestly supposed to stand back and let someone use my daughter as free labour telling her she will eventually get a job? Because I dont think it will happen. She will stay there forever. She needs to get a proper job. She has no prospects at the moment. We are talking over a 5 year gap on her CV.

The gap's not getting bigger. It's staying the same size and it's receding into the past thanks to the voluntary job.

If you push, your DD may end up taking a paid job and not lasting very long at all in it. Then you'll be back to square one. So please stop pushing.

You sound frantic yourself. Ask yourself; "What will be worse than it is now if she continues in this voluntary role for 12 months? And what might be better?"

Try reading 'I had a black dog' and 'living with a black dog' by Matthew Johnstone OP, really useful to get insight into how your daughteray feel and how you can react to help her.

Why have you posted here OP? You have been given plenty of advice which you're ignoring, and saying the same thing over and over... do you want someone to agree with you? To say "ohhhh what a lazy fat dd you have poor you?"

That's not going to happen. Read the advice, use it. Please. Your child needs you.

So you "favouritise" your other daughter because she's got a well paid job? And your depressed I'll daughter who volunteers (in what I don't know) is just wasting her life?

Awful post.

And sounds a bit like my mum. cant you be happy she's doing something worthwhile? Would you be the same if your "good" daughter started volunteering?

I'm not surprised your daughter has issues. You've caused them. Surely if she's suffering from depression (which as others have said is an illness - not just something she chooses to do on a whim) her getting out and doing something with her time is a big step. Can't you see that?

you sound as though money's the only important thing

only two pages in but why so nasty to op?

She is posting here for help.

She is supporting her dd, brought her a car and clearly cares for her, she just has different views on life and is struggling to put herself in her dd shoes....which posters can help do.

why be so cruel?

• JustMe42 Sat 24-Oct-15 04:43:53

Great post and also personal trainer advice sounds excellent....hard to shirk when you have somoene coming to house, and it takes that self motivation issue - away.

and you feel better about yourself after

Emotional eating has been a part of my life as long as I can remember. I overeat to the point of discomfort when I am struggling to cope with what life has thrown at me - the pain of being overful overrides the pain of whatever it is that's sent me into binge mode for just a short while. It is a horrendous cycle which I've only within the last year begun to understand, accept and deal with - I binge, I gain weight, I feel shit about myself, I eat, I gain more weight etc etc. I've only felt able to begin to tackle this because my self-esteem has improved.

I was always put down as a child, a teenager and as a younger adult. I was depressed from an early age, bullied to the point where I considered suicide, I threw away the opportunities I was given and worked in a low paid, menial job where I was bullied again. I was very, very unhappy and food was a friend in my times of need.

My sibling was the very clear favourite. I have always been able to see it and so could everyone else around us. I was bewildered as a child, as an adult I have chosen to go NC because it damaged my self-esteem so much. I felt worthless for a long, long time because not even my own mother liked me.

I isolated myself so that no-one else could hurt me like that. I preferred to sit on my laptop in my room on my own, stuffing my face because food never judged and was never mean.

I started a voluntary job last year at my dc's school, just a few hours a week sharing something I enjoy with both parents and children. Someone other than dh recognised something in me and encouraged and supported me to take those little steps and it has transformed my life. I am about to start a paid job for the first time in 8 years, at the school where I was encouraged to volunteer because someone realised I was not quite ready for a job. I am more confident and I believe in myself. I believe I am worth something now. I still have binges but they are far less frequent than they used to be. The fog of depression has gradually lifted and I feel fantastic for it.

Anyway, TL;DR.

Treat your daughter with kindness, understanding and gentleness. Make her feel she is worthy of love and kindness from everyone around her. Take her seriously when she says you play favourites - my mother never did and now she is missing out on 4 grandchildren. Don't criticise, don't book personal trainers, don't force her out of her comfort zone until she is ready. Understand that she is ill, that she is trapped in a cycle of unhappiness and that by volunteering, she is taking steps to help herself.

Try to find a positive thing to say to her every single day because

If you can't do the above then I feel desperately sad for your daughter and I hope one day she finds the strength to walk away from you and never look back.

Jesus this is Mumsnet at its absolute worst. Depression does not just affect the person experiencing it, it affects all the people who care about them. It is a hateful insidious condition and I honestly have equally as much sympathy for the OP who is watching her daughter suffer as I do for her daughter who struggles each day to cope with a beast of an illness.

OP I think you will need to really get inside her condition for your own and your daughter's sake so you stop having unrealistic expectations of her and support her from a place of understanding but it is ok for you to be sad and worried about how your daughter's life is going. I say this as s mother of two young children who do not have mh issues but rather developmental conditions which will have lifelong consequences. I will still want them to reach their full potential in years to come but I understand that 'their' potential might not be the same as anyone else's.

The big issue for me would be comparing your 2 children. One of them has a mental health condition and the other does not. To me they are incomparible so don't even try.

i wish you and your daughter the best and I hope your daughter reaches a place of peace. From what you have written she sounds like a very impressive girl who clearly wants to find her own feet (hence the volunteering that she hopes will lead to a job) but is being held back every step by her depression.

I was, and still am, like your dd.
Turns out I have asperger's. Which explained the mental health problems.
My parents were uncannily like you. They loved me, but had no concept of understanding my differences and mental health problems (which I still keep bottled in to this day). In fact I think they would be more accepting of me being a prostitute than the way I am, although they'd point out that I am too fat to be a prostitute. I was criticised for eating anything, teased for being fat as they thought it would jolt me out of it, did not support me when I was bullied throughout my school days because it was my fault for being fat in the first place.

You can learn to understand her anxiety and depression, and I'm amazed that she's got to her 20s without you doing so.
Your poor dd :(
Growing up with this, it's no wonder she has the problems she has.

Read up about it, learn, be there for her, stop criticising her, accept her and love her as she is.
Let her know that she is good enough as she is, that you love her unconditionally.

I must have typed very slowly as I've x-posted and want to make the point that nothing in the op's post shows any effort to understand or empathise.
She is clear that she's disappointed in her dd and is critical of her eating.
The first port of call for the op should be to address these things.

Hermit I am very sorry to hear about your struggles. I think you sum it up very well. Your parents do not understand what you are going through but they are concerned about the 'symptoms rather than the disease' so to speak. Obviously I do not mean you have a disease, just to be clear, but your parents are not focussing on your condition which is not IMHO the right way to go.

However I am willing to bet they are coming from a place of genuine concern and worry and sadness at seeing you sad, when that happens, but obviously a place of support would be far more useful for you.

I also have realised since my own kids have had their struggles that the world is full of people who like to give practical solutions to emotional problems. This is well meaning but often useless.

I think it might help for both parties, mother and daughter in this case, to look at it from the others perspective and respect that both have their own version of a struggle.

Are you sure your dd doesn't actually love her job volunteering and telling you that she is going to give it up in 1 week/month etc is just her way of keeping you off her back.

I get the impression you have paid out a lot of money to sort her problems out but are disappointed and frustrated with her that they have not worked.

Instead of badgering her to quit her job could she take on extra work in the evenings or take a course that would help her to land the job when it comes up or a course she actually would enjoy doing just for the hell of it. Or even just start an Ebay type business buying and selling stuff. Or even blogging about her life. I am sure she is not the only person in the world who is going through what she is going through.

If anything you have probably done too much for her and on finding her feet she is getting criticised for doing something that makes her happy because you don't approve so instead of being open about stuff she is keeping secrets because she thinks you will voice a negative opinion if she told you exactly what she was doing.

FWIW I am with you on thinking there probably is not going to be a job at the end of the day but rather than tell dd that I would be trying to suggest she broadens her horizons and gets something that pays a little money (dog walking, pet sitting, ebaying, etc) other than just waiting around for a job that may never materialise. But you can't verbalise any of this as it will have to come from her or it won't work.

Alora what a lovely post. Congratulations on the job.

Why be so cruel?

Maybe because the OP's showing such an appalling lack of empathy and understanding towards her daughter, who's obviously unwell? I'd hazard a guess and say she is at least partly responsible for her DD's mental health problems.

Thank you ilovesooty! I'm very excited!

I just hope the OP takes on board some of these comments instead of being so defensive, she's had some really thoughtful suggestions throughout the thread.