Are we doing ourselves any favours with the "I'm hormonal excuse"?

[GruntledOne]

We see only too often on here someone excusing or explaining daft/unreasonable/irrational behaviour on the basis that "I'm pregnant/just. given birth/premenstrual/menstrual/post menstrual, I'm hormonal, I can't help it". Yet there are hordes of women out there handling difficult and/or dangerous jobs day after day with no concessions for the possibility that it could be that time of the month. You don't see female police officers claiming that they don't fancy going on that dawn raid as it's the wrong time of the month, or barristers excusing a bad job because they're pregnant. I've worked with women in a variety of jobs over the years and never been able to tell when they were on their periods unless they mentioned it.

What concerns me about constantly reaching for the hormonal excuse is that it will backfire. It's exactly the excuse employers use for not employing or promoting women, and we are simply giving it credence. So should we maybe all give it a rest?

Do men have hormone fluctuations too? I would expect so, but I don't know.

I worked with someone once who, if any woman got annoyed at him, would say they were hormonal. When he was annoyed and angry, it was like it was more justified, whereas the women were 'just' hormonal. It didn't matter.

"hormones can't be blamed for treating people badly and shut a conversation"

"paid for therapy and completely supported"

If they're enough to need professional treatment then they probably can be "blamed" for quite a lot actually.

What you're actually saying which is "if hormones affect you then get over it as I need you to be a totally unemotional cog in this machine. Anything less 24/7 requires medical treatment."

It's insulting and not that simple.

kacie no, what I am saying is if you can't respect your coworkers and truly can not help it, we will work with you to help you. But if you just enjoy making other people miserable, you need to stop.

It's not fair for other people in the office to be treated like shit.

And who said anything about 24/7 medical treatment?

Or maybe we should allow someone (anyone) to make their co workers miserable because they can't help it and ignore the problem completely.

To seek treatment doesn't mean it's "cured" but that at least you are trying to address it rather than just using it as an excuse.

I agree -- we might as well stick big fat 'discriminate against me' posters on our backs.

The suggestion that women's behaviour and opinions and feelings some or even all of the time are all due to 'hormones' suggests that women are only ok or human when they are less 'hormonal', and thus allegedly more like men.

I disagree with those who say it's ok to use 'hormonal' in a lighthearted way. It's just as bad as using it seriously. The same message is given no matter how it is expressed -- all women are irrational lightweights at the mercy of their menstrual cycles. If it's not ok for men to dismiss women's opinions or potential because of allegedly being affected by 'hormones', then why do we dismiss ourselves? When the phrase is used in any tone it gives people with an axe to grind a weapon to use to beat all women up with.

We can't have our cake and eat it. We need to take ourselves seriously and stop and think about whether we hold ourselves back, whether we are too liable to accept myths about ourselves, and who these myths benefit.

We all have hormones, men included. Not every woman suffers as a result of her hormones -- endometriosis is not everyone's experience, or severe PMS, etc. Fertility drugs are not part of everyone' lives either. Despite the fact that women have rarely been responsible for waging war, football hooliganism, riots, etc. it is apparently only women's hormones that have a serious effect on human behaviour, and are allegedly capable of turning grown adults into immature, angry, eejity, unpredictable, unreasonable, irrational aliens who are therefore impossible to understand, and whose feelings are impossible to anticipate or empathise with or comprehend, creatures best avoided when the 'hormones' strike. Really?

Why do we co-operate in the 'othering' of women that occurs as part and parcel of the association of women and 'hormones'?

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You're either for this shit or you're against it.

To seek treatment doesn't mean it's "cured" but that at least you are trying to address it rather than just using it as an excuse.

Exactly. We are seeking to cure the work force, but support them to make the working environment better for everyone.

Only on mn would an employer trying to help people be seen as insulting

We arent seeking

TheHoneyBadger Sun 18-Oct-15 07:00:24

oh and you don't hear men blaming their less than ideal behaviours that are due to their maleness on their hormones because they're not even EXPECTED to explain themselves or apologise for their maleness because people like the OP see that as HUMAN behaviour and normal and to be emulated by everyone who wants to be allowed at the grown up table.

And this^^

It is perfectly OK to cry in the paddock at a sunset, or at any other sight that moves you.

Why would anyone feel the need to put forward an excuse for showing an emotion that is hurting nobody?

The feminine is pushed aside and treated as abnormal and if we buy into that and offer excuses for it we do ourselves an injustice. A double injustice in the case of putting the expression of emotion down to 'hormones'.

We are women. We can roar, and we can also cry.

And when we support the myth that expression of 'weak' emotions is all due to women's hormones we reinforce the gender-based expectations that it make it hard for boys and men to cry or to show indecision or tenderness or to show that they are moved by a sunset.

There is a difference between having a hormonal imbalance because of an illness and it being assumed that having a hormonal imbalance is normal for your sex.

Illnesses like endometriosis are not just part and parcel of being a woman. I don't think it does sufferers any favours when it is assumed that it is.

I never use the excuse "I'm hormonal" but it absolutely has an affect on my behaviour. I can have migraines so bad that they make me vomit, as a teenager my cramps were so painful that I couldn't walk and would have to go home from work/college not to mention the upset stomach that would come with it. As for my mood, I normally keep it together at work but I am noticeably snappy and angrier and unhappy when on my period. Whilst the pill lessens these symptoms they got much better during and after pregnancy, but now 6 years on seem to be returning.

It is exactly the excuse that employers use for not employing or promoting women.

So shut up women. It's your fault that misogynist employers act illegally.

WTAF!

So shut up women. It's your fault that misogynist employers act illegally.

That isn't the point. Of course women with hormonal imbalances that cause them medical or psychological issues should not shut up. And of course an employer who discriminates against such a person is acting illegally, as they would be over any medical condition. They should instead be offering help. There should be more awareness about these serious conditions, and more research into effective ways of dealing with them.

The point is that many women who do not have a hormonal imbalance are using the term 'hormonal' flippantly. They shouldn't do this, because it is simply fodder for misogynists, including employers, who think that all women are irrational. It also 'normalises' what is in fact a major problem for many women, fuelling the notion that it's all part of being female and we just have to put up with it. Look at the recent articles about endometriosis for some terrible examples of this.

No, that is the point. It's in the OP. And any employer who discriminates on the basis of sex is acting illegally. I can't believe that some posters are blaming women for that.

I suspect that the difficult/dangerous jobs mentioned in the OP are self-selecting. I most certainly couldn't have trained for a physical job when I was younger, and had to take lots of time off so couldn't have coped at that time with rigorous training for anything. So I disagree with the OP, in that it isn't as simple as that, and her examples don't count as 'excuses'

But I do blame any person who trivialises hormonal problems, by using 'hormones' as an excuse when they don't really suffer from those issues. It's just a catch-all term for 'silly little woman'.

Oh right, so do women now need a doctors note before they can discuss the impact of hormones on their body and mood, otherwise they're just being "silly little women".

Er, no. I'm using that term as an example of the attitude of misogynists when faced with a woman using hormones as an excuse. Not a reason. An excuse. Those are two different things. If it is a reason - not an excuse - then it might be a good idea to seek medical help, but no, we don't need a doctor's note. I'm struggling to see where you got that from.

Believe me, I know it is very possible to have a condition for which you have not been diagnosed.

No, people with any kind of medical problem should be able to discuss it without a doctor's note.

However, being female is not in itself a medical problem - any more than all men inevitably can't control their anger and are doomed to have prostrate problems or testicular cancer.

Just to clarify the point of the OP - roundandround essentially has it. Of course no employer should ever discriminate on the basis of sex, nor was the OP intended in any way to refer to people with identified hormone disorders. It was aimed at people who blame their own feeble or unreasonable conduct solely on their hormones when the reality is that they are perfectly able to control that conduct if they have to, irrespective of what point in their cycle they are at or whether they are pregnant. And whilst it is illegal for employers to discriminate, nevertheless the fact is that misogynist attitudes exist and we are handing excuses to misogynists on a plate if we make out that all women will inevitably be irrational at particular points in their menstrual cycles or reproductive lives. It doesn't excuse misogyny in the slightest.

pet that would depend on the impact it's having on other people, though. If it's effecting other members of staff, because the persons behaviour is bad then it can't be just ignored on the off chance it's a medical issue that there can never be any help for.