Are we doing ourselves any favours with the "I'm hormonal excuse"?

[GruntledOne]

We see only too often on here someone excusing or explaining daft/unreasonable/irrational behaviour on the basis that "I'm pregnant/just. given birth/premenstrual/menstrual/post menstrual, I'm hormonal, I can't help it". Yet there are hordes of women out there handling difficult and/or dangerous jobs day after day with no concessions for the possibility that it could be that time of the month. You don't see female police officers claiming that they don't fancy going on that dawn raid as it's the wrong time of the month, or barristers excusing a bad job because they're pregnant. I've worked with women in a variety of jobs over the years and never been able to tell when they were on their periods unless they mentioned it.

What concerns me about constantly reaching for the hormonal excuse is that it will backfire. It's exactly the excuse employers use for not employing or promoting women, and we are simply giving it credence. So should we maybe all give it a rest?

I think it depends on whether you suffer from with them or not? I view it as a medical condition. Not all women are affected and many who are are only affected mildly. I didn't get PMT til my 30s and not really badly til my 40s. I expect it will tail off after the menopause. Of course, there are other factors, too. I think your 40s are a difficult time of your life emotionally, anyway, as there are a lot of changes going on so you can't blame it ALL on your hormones.

It puts feminism back fifty years! I hate it. It's an excuse women use often.

What puts feminism back is women being told to keep their PMS or Menopausal symptoms to themselves like they are something to be ashamed or embarrassed about.

Women don't often use it as an excuse. I've spent the past 30 years working mostly with other women and I've never heard hormones being used as an excuse for mistakes or poor performance at work.

OP, yabu to, on the one hand state that I've worked with women in a variety of jobs over the years and never been able to tell when they were on their periods unless they mentioned it and then say that What concerns me about constantly reaching for the hormonal excuse is that it will backfire Seems like a bit of a contradiction going on there.

You do realise that the women posting on here are the same women who are out in the real world doing the demanding jobs you mention such as Police Officers and Barristers. So you've sort of answered your own question. We don't need to 'give it a rest' because out in the real world women struggling with sometimes horrendous PMS are 'getting on with it' and you said yourself you've never been able to tell.

I think it's OK to say I'm not feeling myself right now (hormones, pnd, sugar low, pain) and please give me some space or I'll get back to you when I can respond appropriately.

I work in an all women enviroment of all ages i can honestly say i have never heard pregnancy hormones pmt or menopause as an excuse/reason for their behaviour what i have heard is gawd i feel rough tired hormonal today because im menopausal have pmt or pregnant. There is a difference ime

It's yet another of these "damned if you do, damned if you don't" issues that a society built round male physiology as normal, women's physiology as deviant foists on us. Some women don't find hormonal fluctuations affect them much, others do (I was lucky enough not to have pmt, but am having a fairly shitty menopause - without hrt I would not be able to function anything like normally either cognitively or emotionally).

But it does strike me there are lots of reasons why people function a bit below par occasionally at work - a heavy cold, a bout of insomnia, a hangover, being wiped out on Monday after a weekend of healthy exercise fell-running. Society passes moral judgement on tgese things in different ways and to different extents - I can easily envisage a boss who cracks jokes about "that time of the month" in connection with Josephine's behaviour at work while turning a blind eye to Jonny's occasional hangovers on the grounds that "he works hard and parties hard".

So I'm deeply uncomfortable with the pathologising of women's biological issues as "letting feminism down." A couple of decades back there was a tendency among some professional women to see other women who took more than a bare minimum of maternity leave as "letting the feminist side down" and this smacks of the same thing to me.

Incidentally I've also had hormonal issues in the past - thyroid - which affect men and women, and make finding the energy to do your job hard. Would people on here saying a woman who complains that her pmt/endometriosis affects her ability to function well at work is "setting back the cause of feminism" apply the same degree of moral censure to a colleague with thyroid trouble, and if not, why?

50yrs ago womens issues were seen as shameful/ embarassing something not to be spoken about then it was joked about oh its womens problems eh . how is talking about these things putting us back 50years ?

I can get very irrational a few days before my menstrual cycle. I get snappy at dh, teary and am genuinely horrible to him (not in an abusive way more making him feel he cant do anything right kind of way). Yes i use the hormonal excuse, because that is what it is. or more like dh uses the hormonal excuse. he knows I don't really mean it and it is genuinely hormones in overdrive. I've always been bad for it, my mother put me on evening primrose oil as a teenager.
I would never use it as an excuse in the workplace though or anywhere else outside of my home either as i don't want tom/dick and harry knowing my private business. they can just think i'm a stuck up bitch for all i care.

PMDD here too. Thank god medication helps me stabilise - it's the most debilitating experience ever - nothing worse than not being able to control your emotions or feelings.

MIL is almost a different person during the 'change'.

Pregnancy was horrendous - I just loved bursting into tears every day for no reason - very professional look at work (not)

I've never had PMT and so didn't "believe" in it until my dd hit her teens and she has always been really badly affected by it. I think it is helpful to recognise the effects of hormones, it helps to separate perception from reality.

And what's with this wanting to be men? Men aren't capable of recognising that their moods might be affected hormones so women have to deny it too?

I know we all have to sell ourselves as wageslaves to be able to feed our families, but we should not have to apologise for being women.

Yeah, by the time you're an adult you don't get a free pass for "being hormonal". Hormones don't control your voice box or muscle control to do or say something stupid. I feel irrational rage during PMT sometimes. I keep it to myself, and take a few extra breaks during the day to keep my head clear.

Frankly, there's also been time's I've been short fused and it wasn't even close to that time of month, because of other stress related issues going on in my life.

But that said, if you're just feeling irrationally upset and not acting on it or snapping at people, yes it's fine to say "I'm feeling hormonal so I might be irrationally upset". Otherwise, it's just a lame excuse to justify bad behavior instead taking a little personal responsibility.

I started my period yesterday and had to go to a meeting that turned loooooooooong.
Guess who were the two "hormonal" people?
Yes, two of the four men. Not any of the three women.
Clearly, i was right about that point for which I had to pull references out and qualifications on. Not my fault those two almost imploded.

I think this post is quite belittling to the experiences of those who have PMDD, PND or AND

The OP, and posts which say "I just control myself".

It's different to say I just control it and to say I know I'm not normal so I do my best to minimise the impact on others.
We do have some control over our actions, even if not over our emotions.
I do suffer from period pain and sometimes I just have to say that I'm not functioning that well. Particularly if I have to deal with something difficult. But sometimes needs must and I'm not all smiles, but I can still be polite and act as calmly as possible.
Of course some people may have a hard time achieving even that. But it's probably not those who just claim "I'm hormonal" and carry on upsetting everyone.

I have a friend who was a prison officer in womens prison and she said the pmt did play a major part as the reason why some women were in prison, not as an excuse because they didnt realise it was the cause at the time. Once they were given treatment in prison they were different people.
Hormones don't control your voice box or muscle control to do or say something stupid.
That is very ignorant thing to say .Like most other medical problem you do get extremes and some people are really affected badly. Depression affects Men very differently to women, they are more likely to present with anger rather sadness, create conflict , dont visit doctors and self medicate and more likely to successfully commit suicide.
I can tell when my periods due because i start getting pmt symptoms, not the other way round. I was on duphaston for a couple of months for endometrial cysts and stopped taking it because it was either a case of 10 days of crying and very painful boobs or 2 days in agony. I took the 2 days in agony.

I have never heard it used as an excuse in real life however I wouldn't say it doesn't have an effect on how I feel. Last year I had a miscarraige and the hormone crash after that had a very real and very difficult physical and psychological effect. I am not a woman who cries at much but I physically couldn't stop myself. It wasn't just the effects of losing a baby it was a physical reaction.
When pregnant I do find hormonal changes very difficult to deal physically/emotionally with that is a factual thing, I wouldn't use it as an excuse and it certainly doesn't stop me from doing things (it's just something I have adapt and to deal with) but to say it's not a real thing negates a very real experience.

Yanbu, it does no favours to those who use it as an excuse then bang on about expecting to be treated equally when it suits. However I've only heard this on here not in rl.

It's also not a woman only thing - testosterone is often used as an 'excuse' for male behavior

I think it's really hard for people who don't experience to know what it's like. To put PMDD into perspective, it is often misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder, and can affect behaviour in much the same way.

95% of the UK prison population is male. With such a huge skew hormones must be a factor there (yes, one of many), it just doesn't get discussed in the same kind of flippant way.

I agree that it's very wrong dismiss women's views under a banner of "hormonal" but perhaps we should be more sensitive to the impact across the whole population and less dismissive in general.

But hormones do effect us and I don't think acknowledging that sets us back.
I'm 25 weeks pregnant and suffer occasional dizzy spells. I almost fell over at work the other day and got sent for a sit down and hot chocolate. I guess that means I'm a disgrace to feminism.

oyster again missing the point.

We are talking about people who are pregnant or pmdd etc. We are talking about the women that some of know in RL who throw it around to excuse bad behaviour. In a similar way to 'oh I feel so bi-polar today!' Because they are struggling to decide what sandwich they want for lunch Or 'got I am depressed/ocd' etc when they aren't.

Not because they feel dizzy when they are pregnant or have a diagnosed medical issue.

And also if we are accepting that women's hormones do effect us and allowances should be made, does that mean we shouldn't do certain jobs?

aren't pregnant