To feel it is high time that Israel/Palestinian issue got resolved?

[SippyDippy]

conflict us starting up again. I cannot bear another round of children being killed indiscriminately. The super powers would have you believe that it is all oh so very complicated. its not though is it. It is so bloody unfair how those children will keep dying if the status quo is maintained. Something needs to change.

And are you seriously arguing that even if the territory was disputed, that attacking unarmed civilians with meat cleavers, axes etc, was the right way to resolve the situation?

Jeez. And you wonder why there's a problem. Glad you're stuck here not there. Or am I? Truth be told, I'd rather people who justified killing civilians with axes and meat cleavers lived far, far away on a desert island somewhere, where they can't harm anyone else.

Presumably, hamster, you'll be fine if some angry Argentinian murders a British family with an axe tomorrow, because Britain occupies the Falkland islands.

After all, it will be totally justified and a completely reasonable way to behave, according to you.

I'm sorry I misunderstood I thought you were denying the existence of settlers and disputed territories full stop.
And no I'm not seriously arguing anything of the sort I have no idea what makes you think I'm justifying such behaviour.

One thing I haven't read about here is that Moshe Dayan himself admitted that the events leading to the 6 day war (about 80% of the incidents) were mostly provoked by Israel itself so they had a legitimate reason to attack and annex more land.
Funny thing is: all history books have adopted the story that those big bad Arab nations all just attacked Israel out of the blue "just because they didn't like it".

And yes, Israel is an apartheid state (Palestinians in West Bank under military rule while the settlers fall under Israeli civil law) and the West Bank is occupied under international law (no matter how much Israeli's try to soothe themselves and call them disputed territories).

According to me? Please quote where I said or even implied 'it will be totally justified and a completely reasonable way to behave'? I didn't so please retract that statement you're coming across as quite hysterical.

hampster - you criticised my post in which I attacked a PP - TheXxed Fri 16-Oct-15 11:26:33 - for suggesting that it was OK to attack Israeli civilians waiting for buses because ""nonnom if you are occupying a country you are not peaceful.""

I disputed that. You appear to be agreeing with their posts.

If you did not mean to, maybe you should check what I am responding to before leaping in with both feet and missing the point.

However, I am relieved to hear that you, unlike that poster, do not think attacking peaceful Israeli (or any other) civilians is justified. One less nutter on this thread is good.

As stated above I thought you were denying that any settlers exist or and territories are disputed. I understand now you mean the people who were attacked were not settlers. Of course killing civilians is never justified. What a shame both sides can't work to that very basic standard of humanity.

Is it really too much too ask that people appreciate that there are ordinary human beings on both sides who just want the normal things we all want, ie to live in peace and have a reasonable life with their families.

Yes, there are nutters on both sides but the last thing ordinary people on either side need is people abroad supporting the nutters. People who try to murder civilians with knives, axes and guns are all wrong. There isn't a 'nice' group of nutters.

Agree - hampster - crossed posts.

You have to be blind not to realise territories are disputed!

What a load of tosh that Israel provoked the six day war. Listen to what Nasser was saying, what was coming out of Syria. They thought they'd smash Israel to smithereens.

There's plenty to criticise Israel for but a) no need to make stuff up and b) Israel is not always the villain kn this conflict

Nomnom, calling everyone else who doesn't agree with you a nutter, doesn't make them that. But that is the exact aprroach that Israel typically adopts against the palestinians, that they are all terrorists. Being against Israel oppression does not make anyone a nutter. Shame you seem to think so.

The 13 year old Palestinian boy won't be put on trial. He's too young. He can't even go to jail under Israeli law because he committed the attempted murder under the age of 14. At most he can go to a closed boarding school and has to be released by the age of 20. How very inhumane.

Shakshuka. Are you saying that Israeli military detention for palestinian children is a boarding school?
?

I agree sippy.

This is the reverse psychological warfare often used. If you support Palestine you are anti semitic, a nutter, a leftie, you should be ashamed for supporting terrorists, your links and evidence are rubbish Photoshopped prpoganda, you are deluded, brainwashed, supporter of stabbed. Thankfully most people have now read the hasbara handbook which was leaked by one of the many defecting idf soldiers belonging to the breaking the silence move.

And if you are Jewish and support Palestinians right to live free and unoccupied you are a self hating jew, a traitor.

And there has been a lot of misinformation and lies on here by posters about certain Israeli actions - like the 13 yr old boy being shot and killed (was actually attacking another child and is alive and being treated). I have no doubt that there have been many awful acts committed by Israleis but don't you realise how important to keep facts right and not just either make up lies or go off shouting about these things half cocked. You totally ruin any credibility to your argument, not only that but it makes you look totally biased and yes anti Semitic in this regards as it just sounds like a hate filled propaganda advert.

A Palestinian guy I knew and worked for in Jerusalem my told me how the Holocaust didn't actually happen or not as people describe it. I can overlook that as he was so entrenched with the situation and filled with hate and desperation for what was happening and I felt bad for him. It did make me doubt some of the other things he would claim though. I can't overlook the same kind of lies and inacurracies from people sitting safe in the UK who are watching this tragedy from afar.

Another poster said it, you are part of the problem and are encouraging the Palestininas to see themselves as totally blameless victims in this, encouraging them not to opt for negotiation as they really deserve it all.

"Because Palestinians are being illigally occupied and oppressed and I want that to stop. The only way there will be peace is if the Palestinians are given rights and justice. Being pro one side doesn't make you anti the other. Anti apartheid activists were pro black people having rights and equality doesn't mean they were anti white people."

A bold claim, what makes you think they will stop if they get "rights and justice" - what are these rights and what will the justice be that the Palestininas will find acceptable? You cannot say that for sure. I hope they can enter into negotiations and find a solution that both sides are prepared to accept and work at. It will take a sort of leap of faith and the Israelis can't keep denying this opportunity for the Palestinians on the pretext of security. I'm sure that Bibi would like to but hopefully his days are numbered. Horrible that he has this power when less than a third of the electorate voted for him.

SippyDippy - "Nomnom, calling everyone else who doesn't agree with you a nutter, doesn't make them that."

Er...I didn't. I called people who murder innocent civilians (on either side) nutters.

What term would you prefer for people who murder innocent civilians? Are you suggesting it is a rational act??

And also, SippyDippy -

"that is the exact aprroach that Israel typically adopts against the palestinians, that they are all terrorists. Being against Israel oppression does not make anyone a nutter. "

AAAGH - you just do irony, do you.

Do you not understand how ludicrous you come across in the same breath (correctly) criticising those who view all Palestinians as terrorists, and then in the very next breath labelling 'Israel oppression' - as though all Israelis were oppressors.

How difficult is it to acknowledge that there are some Israelis who kill innocent people with guns and some Palestinians who kill innocent people with knives, axes, stones and yes, guns too sometimes and you know what - they're all nutters. They're all the 'bad guys' and should be arrested and tried. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I simply don't understand how you can see one lot as baddies and the other as goodies. The goodies here are the people who are NOT killing anyone - the vast majority on both sides. The 13 year old boy whose health you worry about so much was trying to murder another 13 year old boy!! Does that not worry you? Why do you only care about the 13 year old boy with the knife in his hand and not his innocent victim, FFS? Just because of the race of the victim?!

How twisted is that?!

I fully support the freedom of Palestine, a long term 2 state peace solution, and justice for the horrendous war crimes commited mostly by Israel last year that are unforgiveable.

Israel has made it's intentions oh so clear, they do not want peace. They want to get away with levelling palestine and claiming it as their own.

RIP to all the children killed during operation mindless carpet bombing "protection edge"

I don't know how anyone can defend those murdering or attempting to murder civilians. And I couldn't give a damn about which side the civilians are on.

And if you do, if only those civilians who belong to the 'good' race matter to you, then yes, you're a racist.

MySordidCakeDesert - Israel is a piece of land, or if you prefer a political entity - it does not have 'intentions'. If you mean 'Israelis' when you say Israel, you should say so.

Because that then makes it apparent that you are referring to all Israelis.

But is it true that all Israelis do "not want peace. They want to get away with levelling palestine and claiming it as their own" - as you have claimed above?

Actually, as I pointed out, only 29% of the 64% of eligible Israelis actually voted for Netanyahu - so somewhat less than the proportion of British people who voted for Cameron. Would you be happy if you were personally blamed for every nutty policy of Cameron's government? No?

Well, similarly it is not reasonable for you to in effect accuse all Israelis of being complicit in 'levelling Palestine and claiming it as their own' either (ignoring the fact that that is a pretty huge assumption to make even about Netanyahu's supporters - it's certainly not the ticket he stands on).

If I wrote 'Palestine attacks Israeli citizens', you would rightly point out that I was unfairly scapegoating ALL Palestinians for the actions of a few. You should be much more careful with the language you use. You may not mean to, but you ARE scapegoating all Israelis. That is equally unacceptable.

No, this particular Palestinian boy carried out his crime in Jerusalem and has full civil rights under Israeli law.

Like others have said, there are legitimate criticisms of Israel but not all is justified. Its important to get your facts straight.

One could also claim that Palestine made its intentions clear when it rejected peace deal after peace deal.

Shak, would you like to comment on Israel military detention of palestinian children? Do you ask your leaders why an enlightened and free thinking society like israel would resort to such tactics against children. It is certainly no boarding school is it shak. Have you asked your leaders why the settlers are allowed to terrorise palestinian with a lot of help from your soldiers?

Oh and nomnom, when I say Israel, I am not referring to the friendly peace loving civilians, but the occupying power. That would be ummm...Israel.

"Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.

And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.'"

The New York Times, May 11, 1997