To wonder if religion/belief is really a choice?

[TheoriginalLEM]

Please excuse my ramblings but i had this thought.

I would imagine that being "religious", be that Catholic, Muslim, Hindu or whatever is a choice, in as much as you choose your religion and or whether to follow it and to what degree.

But belief? What you actually truly believe in your heart of hearts - is there a choice in that?

I believe in God, am Catholic but not practising. I don't feel that i have ever made a conscious "choice" to believe in God and if i were to make an evidence based choice, well i probably wouldn't believe; but i do believe there is a God, i don't know what influence "he" has on my life and on those around me. I believe that "my" God is the same as the Gods of other religions. Its just the religion that is different, but the Gods are one and the same. I don't really know why i feel that. So whilst I believe in a Christian God, i believe that whoever other religions worship are a different version of the same God.

I don't know why - i just "know" and well, my reality is really all that counts to "me" isn't it. My world. my bubble, my perception. Just the same as all of us - it comes down to us as one single being, maybe that,s where i should be looking? If i was looking, that is.

Sorry none of that probably makes any sense outside my own head.

Apparently the tendency to be spiritual is genetic and strongly inherited, where as the actual religion is entirely environmental.

And as for wondering about the mystery of your own reality, I do that all the time - completely normal, I hope!! I used to almost feel I was going mad when I was a child thinking about what would happen if I wasn't me but an inanimate object....

I don't think belief is a choice. Certainly not for me. Whether I then conform to a particular religious group is though.

Niggle - not just me then :) phew!

I don't think most people do choose their religion, it's assigned to them by the family they are born into in most cases.

I was raised as a Catholic and looking back I felt I had no choice but to believe when I was a child.

The reason for that is because if your parents/whole family/church and school, told you that blue was yellow, then that's what you would believe, because you wouldn't know any different. It's very similar to brain washing in a way.

However, when I got older and more open minded, I stopped believing in God because I found it all too ridiculously silly for me personally.

But even when I stopped believing, I felt this weird sort of guilt/fear and for years I thought something bad was going to happen to me, because I no longer believed in God.

It's fucked up really and a lot of my friends still feel the same.

I see what you're saying and I think I agree.

I would perhaps liken it to love. As in, you can feel romantic love for someone but choose not to marry/be in a relationship with them. The "feeling" of love is something you can't help/stop (subconscious-ish )but you can make a conscious choice not to marry/be in a relationship with them for whatever reason that you "disagree" with (a criminal for example). Sort of??

FWIW I'm an atheist.

Completely agree OP. Especially the part about the one God just being interpreted differently by different religions.

I think you can be brought up within a religion and have beliefs given to you in teaching, we are always joking about being "indoctrinated" as children in my family.

But I think that faith and personal interpretation is more important, to me anyway. I know what I choose to believe and find great comfort in it. You are not alone, op. (Insert theme tune from close encounters of the third kind here.)

I have no religion or belief beyond the physical. I believe were animals, born from the soil, we'll die and go back to the soil and no bloke with a beard is waiting.

I thank my dad for that actually, although he was religious he didn't enforce it upon me, he answered any question i had but left me to make my own choice. This is what I will (hopefully) pass to my LOs.
Not that this is proof that religion and belief is brainwashed by outside forces, its just my tuppence ha'penny

Belief isn't a choice. No matter how I try I simply could not force myself to believe in any god.

Studies have shown that believing in something is a largely unconcious act. But disbelief is not. Disbelief requires cognitive thought which can override the believing process.

In other words, believers haven't chosen to believe. But they could choose to stop, think rationally and logically and evaluate the (lack of) evidence which would probably remove the belief. But they don't, probably for emotional reasons.

"My world, my bubble, my reality....." No. If it's true for you it's true for everyone...and vice versa. We all occupy the same reality. What you're doing here is protecting yourself from the views of others, especially those that might shake your faith, by pretending that it doesn't matter in "your reality".

And the same god but different religions? This misses many points, IMO. Do you believe in Jesus Christ? Presumably, being a Catholic you do. Well Jesus was quite specific...the only way to God is through him. So even the most devout Muslims and Hindus won't get to Heaven.

The only way to believe that it's the same god being worshipped in different ways is to dismiss everything the various holy books have to say about "him" and what "he" wants...and if you do that, what reason do you have left to believe at all?

What your post strongly suggests to me is that you know, deep down, that your faith makes no logical sense....you've answered the usual objections before they've been raised (it's true for ME...all religions are equal because it's the same god) but you wish to continue believing because it emotionally satisfies you.

I should stress that my post isn't intended to criticise or hurt your feelings....it's just that you asked a question and I've answered it.

It makes sense to me. I believe in God and can't unbelieve it.
I was brought up atheist but became Catholic, I think in a different country /culture I might have joined a different religion.

I have faith. I absolutely believe in God.
I believe in God and know him to be real force in my life.
I struggle daily with the cognitive dissonance of this knowledge, as a scientist, particularly as my DH and children do not have the same gut faith. I do struggle with this, and no longer attend group worship, but my belief remains unshakeable.
Like you OP, I have lost faith in organised religion, but my faith remains unchanged.

Its a very odd thing. I think believing anything without proof has to be some sort of influence and I can't think of a better, gentler word, but brainwashing. Otherwise, why on earth would you think that, someone had to tell you the story in the first place as there is no other way to come up with it by yourself. I recognise that religion and belief bring a lot of comfort and structure to people so don't think it is necessarily a bad thing but despite growing up in a very religious family, both grandfathers were clergy, my parents fully practicing and my childhood very much based around the church, I cannot think of a time when even as a small child I believed what they did. I feel I was always athiest. So that just makes this whole question about whether belief is a choice even more confusing.

I think it is part of the human condition - some innate part of the human brain that seeks to explain the world around us, to understand why we are here (and perhaps there is something beyond - who knows I guess) - but religion is something conceived by people who seek to control such need for faith in order to control the land - unfortunately we now have religions that sought to control the land a long time ago which made sense to people with less actual understanding of the world a long time ago eg avoiding certain food (as some animals carry certain diseases) cooking certain food separately (avoids cross contamination where food hygiene was not advanced) not using the hand you wipe your arse with to eat, and some Bourne from genetic drives not sleeping with close family that is still valid today, all coupled with other "rules" which keep the population in check and those at the top in power.

And surely living a good and kind life not brought by some fear of retribution is far better than someone who does so in order to avoid the wrath of some perceived power.

Or in the case of me and my atheist family maddening to prove to everyone that atheists are just as good as, if not better than, religious people. We loves us some moral high ground in my family

I think 'choice' is a very broad term for it. I believe that religion was born out of fear - fear of the unknown, fear of death, fear of what cannot be explained. It was/is much easier to say 'a wizard did it', than find a logical explination at times, e.g. 'why are the crops failing? God wishes it. Why did this child die? A part of God's plan' (especially with death, people need to convince themselves that they don't 'lose' their being, what makes them 'them', even though illnessess such as dementia prove otherwise. The need to 'live on' is to great for some). It's also an excellent way to control people, most proven and effective way to do so. So, is it a choice? Possibly, but I think psychological/social conditioning is a more 'apt' term. It is, for me, just a wish that there's more out there, because the thought of 'it's just this, just this life, no one to blame/forgive my mistakes, no one beyond earthly beings to care about me' is not good enough for some.

I think that's spot on MrsGentlyBenevolent

I changed religion and converted at 18. I always had faith in g-d but not the faith I was brought up in. They weren't that religious but I couldn't do the expected confirmation. I rebelled.
I accidentally married someone of my faith. We are cultural/religious family and we keep our traditions.
I don't know if its choice or not I was adopted and found out many years after I converted that by birth parent were of the religious faith I converted to.

There are fairies at the bottom of my garden. I don't believe this - I KNOW it. Apart from their teeth-y responsibilities, they make many decisions on behalf of me and my family, because that is what they "do".

I genuinely believe and know this.

I also believe all religion is hokum, evolved for convenience and supported by the leaders because of everything MrsGently said.

Having said that, I work in a Catholic school, and whilst I don't subscribe, they are the loveliest people I have ever, ever met,and do their absolute best for the children. And so I think whilst all religion is bollocks, and something people #buy-into# for various reasons, the practicing of it can make us better people. So way to go! Those Christian principals are are (in my view) absolutely right. I hate the smug ones, though, who think they've got the gold ticket into heaven! Decorating the church with flowers whilst feeling pleased with oneself and judging all around you does not a Christian make! (IMHO)

Decorating the church with flowers whilst feeling pleased with oneself and judging all around you does not a Christian make! (IMHO)

Absolutely and completely agree. I was having a discussion with my DM about this the other day and we agreed that going to church doesn't mean you are a good Christian, and can, in fact mean the opposite. I think regardless of believing in a God, being a good person is most important. (I'm lucky, my DF is a fully paid up member of the "all organised religion is a cult" movement and my DM is a c of e vicar. They've been married for 35+ years!)

I totally agree with you, God being viewed from different angles through different religions. Faith too, I was agnostic (i don't know, and there is no way to know) for years until different events took place, that made me realise how often can a coincidence happen? To my scientific mind denying the evidence became ludicrus) And then I felt his presence. It definitly was not a choice.

As for religion this really was the choice, and mine was not to make one, I prayed in hindu and buddhist temples, Sufi shrines and christian churches and I feel true to myself and God in all of them. I just don't talk about it with most people because for many it seems really difficult to understand and I don't feel it's worth the hassle of explaining.

I was bought up in a christian household but I felt it was all nonsense. I eventually at age 13 found paganism and have been a strong believer and part time practicing witch ever since.

I have looked at many religions and found them to have very similar basic principals and religious practices which can be dated back to other older religions.

At the end of the day religion is man made so what ever works for you is fine. There is no proof or disproof its all personal choice.

I personally could never agree with many organised religions and have always been drawn to magick

I don't think it is a choice. I realised that I didn't believe before I was a teenager. I asked some questions and prayed for a sign. None of the results made me believe. And I realised that I didn't. I couldn't make myself and I wasn't thst bothered about trying.

When I was nearly 30 I had a "moment" and then I believed. And once it happened I couldn't deny it.

No choice either way for me.

I agree wth Worra.

I sometimes wonder why I ever bother actually formulating an argument for anything on MN actually, when 99.99% of the time I just think 'I agree with Worra'.

I don't think it's a choice to believe either - I remember desperately wanting to believe in God as a teenager because people who did seemed so much more reassured about their place in the world.

Despite reading a LOT of different religious texts I never found anything that gave me that feeling of belief. I'm not sure whether religious people actually do either but I doubt it's a mass conspiracy of pretending to believe in God so maybe I'm missing the gene for it.