To Think The UK is a Racist Country and the racism is deeply ingrained.

[ACoolDad]

For the last couple of weeks BBC Three has been running documentaries about racism and racial tensions in the U.K and USA. This week we saw a program called "Is Britain Racist?" it failed to prove much apart from black men are seen as more likely to steal from shops and women in Burka's are more likely to face verbal abuse.

As a second generation Black Briton from Jamaica, I have faced racism many times, I do believe the UK is a racist country but it is a in the closet type of racism that is hard to prove. The UK unlike the USA has a type of racism in which few people are openly racist, but racism is deeply ingrained into are mindsets as the program explored.

The presenter who comes across as a very anti racist person still perceived black people as dangerous sub consciously when she had her brain scanned. You have to ask why? You have to ask why black people have been sub consciously viewed as angry, violent and criminals.

I am so proud of my family and my black, mixed and white children and stepchildren. My family represent the tolerant modern Britain that we have and should be proud of.

My son aged 15 was stopped and searched two weeks ago. My white stepson aged 15 has never been stopped and searched, despite them wearing similar clothes, my black son has been profiled by the same mentality explored in the documentary. The type of racism is so difficult to fight as it is so difficult to prove it is racism.

Britain comes across as a country that is improving in terms of race, but I believe certain people and aspects of the media always have to push the idea of white supremacy in different forms. In the past it was considered that black individuals were considered less intelligent now it is considered blacks are more likely to be criminals.

It would be interesting to hear what you think.

Also would like to point out most of Britain is not racist, however I believe there are a lot of closet racists using their power (whatever it may be) to inflict their views.

I agree.

I had the misfortune of watching about 30 seconds of The X-Factor/Britain's Got Talent once and a contestant mentioned he was from Germany.

Cue mass booing from the crowd. It was disgusting.

KingJoffrey Just shows what idiots they are, most white English have some sort of German ancestry.

How are we more racist than any other country?

Evidence please.

It feels less racist than any other country I've lived in. But as I'm white and female I know I'm very privileged. I know black boys have a very different experience.

Did the OP state that Britain was more racist? Don't think so.

I live in a very culturally mixed area. The school where I teach is also very mixed.

Last week as I was walking past the station my handbag slipped down off my shoulder and I grabbed at it to stop it falling on the ground. A black guy walking past me and hissed "don't worry I'm not a black man about to steal your bag!" I was totally surprised but then I suppose if he has had a life of expecting others' intentions to be negative towards him, then it's not entirely unexpected to assume that.

I don't think prejudice can be totally removed, although we must aspire to do so. You can't tell what someone is thinking. But that man might have told people that women grab their bags when he's around, and assume they are racist.

Seriouslyffs I would say it is less racist then USA and France because racism in them countries (particularly USA) are said openly rather then kept to ones self, so like I said it is more difficult to prove the racism.

My black American friend thinks the UK is a wonderful multicultural eutopia compared with his experiences in the US, but of course things aren't perfect.

I think it depends a bit on where in the country you live and how multicultural it is as to what your subconscious view might be. I live and work in inner London. I'm as likely to see black people in suits in my office as I am to see them in hoodies outside a parade of shops. I therefore don't think I have any prconceptions or subconscious bias.
And while I would never try and excuse it as correct, if you live in a very white rural area (like the one I grew up in), and the only time you see black faces is on tv watching the Wire or news reports of gun violence in cities (which is unarguably disproportionately black on black) then I can see how it might happen that people form negative associations. It isn't right, but at least it is being acknowledged and discussed, which is probably the key to overcoming it.

But I'm not aware of my black friends being refused rentals, or restaurant tables or jobs because of their skin colour, which I know is all too common in the US even today.

We're really tolerant compared to other countries but we are wary of 'difference' underneath and since we are (I think) 90 % plus per cent white in Britain we can be inadvertently racist

Once you combine that with the reserve of the British psyche we can be pretty isolationist

We need much more minorities in Britain

This is unconscious bias isn't it, the "subtle" stuff, the stuff that we all have and aren't even aware of. And it's uncomfortable to face up to it. The only thing to do though is to be aware of it and try to correct for it, try to ignore it, question ourselves our decisions our assumptions to check, is this fair?

We have a lot of this at work at the moment, Google have released their unconscious bias training for anyone to watch, I can post a link if there is interest.

The people who believe they are without bias are, unsurprisingly, the ones who are worst.

Of course this is all aside from blatant discrimination, violence and so forth which happens a lot as well, but the subtle stuff, yes, all you can do is raise awareness and challenge this stuff.

Actually that reminds me - there was a program (that I didn't watch!) about how they put people in a sort of computer game virtual reality thing as eg a woman, non white person, and afterwards their bias had reduced. I guess it sort of imposed empathy on them? Interesting.

Bottom line for me is that I believe that Mixing and Exposure are the solutions here - we fear and misunderstand that which we are not familiar with. I know this is true of my own life and it is quite a common effect. This is why I am against things like moving poor people out of whole areas, it skews the dynamic and means those with more money and power aren't exposed to other sorts of people so much and empathy decreases. Gated communities are awful. IMO.

as white middle class woman I have been party to shared racism - people think you agree with them because you are white so they share with you - and it's common and wide spread

My EMB friends feel it deeply

www.jrf.org.uk/press/poverty-twice-likely-minority-ethnic-groups-education-fails-close-gap

www.bbc.com/news/uk-24942641

In no way are we the most racist country I would say arabic gulf states are the most racist.

I agree with much of what you've said re stop & search and expectations of criminality, but I also think many ordinary people are genuinely not racist and are fed up with being labelled as such just because they're white. The whole country does not have "deeply ingrained" racism! It's impossible to get it right all the time, when those who can play the race card are always looking for something to pull you up on.

For example, you yourself say you're proud that your family represents the "tolerant" Britain. Did you know the word tolerant is deeply offensive to many people? It implies non-white people are simply to be "put up with" as though it's very gracious of white people to do that. I am mixed race, but was recently told I'm racist (against myself ) because the correct tem is now "dual heritage"!

we've come a long way from the days when landlords had signs in their windows saying 'no blacks Irish or dogs' - but you're probably right op, I think a lot of people are silently racist.

"But I'm not aware of my black friends being refused rentals, or restaurant tables or jobs because of their skin colour, which I know is all too common in the US even today."

Oh there was a thing on the TV about estate agent offering to screen out applicants of certain races a little while back I'll see if I can find it.

I was in a supermarket the other day, chatting to the check out woman, she was going on holiday to Spain. I'm Spanish so she asked about what was good to do in Barcelona and how she could stay away from 'all them arab types'.
I walked away.

70sDinnerParty That again proves my point the sign "no blacks" is not up but the mentality in some landlords is still their and the estate agent is wiling to go along with it secretly.

Are you implying that racism is just a white British issue though? Or is there a degree of prejudice amongst other races.

ACoolDad I am sorry that your son has been stopped and searched.

I watched the program too and I got from the scientific bits that we all have a natural bias towards faces that look like ours, therefore an opposite reaction to different faces. But in many people there is a strong reaction to try and consciously combat this, which was a positive thing.

I do think there is racism in this country but I strongly believe is is one of the least racist places in the world.

Surely humans have innate tendancies to associate with those of their own kind? Obviously racism is wrong, but I think this may be why multi-culturism doesn't work. It's an innate prejudice towards the 'other'.

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This is the sort of thing - it's insidious - but hard to prove. So if you are on the wrong end of it you get a feeling that something might be "off" but you don't know, you can't prove it. And of course if you're used to it you just knuckle down and get on with it.

Then people who are not on the wrong side of it say, well you should make a fuss! Complain! Report it! But, they are the people who are on the side who gets listened to when they make a fuss IYSWIM and also they've not had to make a fuss about anything like this and so don't know that actually you just get met with non response / nothing / piss off / whatever.

So the example for me (as a white woman) would be sexist stuff - also insidious and hard to prove etc - and even the downright illegal stuff. If you tell a bloke they are usually all "why didn't you report it! " and the answer is of course, it happens all the time, no-one thinks there's anything wrong, I don't imagine the police or whoever will be interested, I'm tired and it sounds like hard work, it's happened to my friends and they never said anything & etc & so on.

The people who know they will be taken seriously etc or don't need this support, don't understand the barriers to this stuff. They say "oh well if it's wrong do something about it!!!!". But, it's not as easy as that. The people who do stick their heads above the parapet and persist e.g. Stephen Lawrence's parents - they are so incredibly strong. We can't all be like that - and should all be grateful to those who are.

"But I'm not aware of my black friends being refused rentals, or restaurant tables or jobs because of their skin colour, which I know is all too common in the US even today."

I work in this field in Canada, another 'we're not racist' country. I work with people finding rentals and yes, landlords absolutely discriminate. Sometimes blatantly, sometimes asking for a criminal record check when I know they don't normally, sometimes just seemingly never renting to PoC.

I reckon half those landlords would be horrified to learn they are racist, because I bet it's mostly subconscious.

I did some time as a carer a couple of years ago (am white) and I learned to dread the time when a client would get to know me well enough to start the racist comments about the other carers.

Now I work in a hospital and it's much the same. It comes out differently - patients see a black nurse or a Spanish nurse approaching them and assume they won't be able to understand them. You tend to get particular nationalities grouping in particular ward teams, at least it's some protection. I also find the admin teams are openly racist, and I've worked in a lot of them.

So yes, in my experience Britain is pretty openly racist most of the time.

We could all give anecdotes showing racism from individuals or organisations, I can certainly think of plenty unfortunately, but I don't think it's fair at all to say the whole country is racist. How is that different from saying all black people are criminals? It's an offensive generalisation.