To Think The UK is a Racist Country and the racism is deeply ingrained.

[ACoolDad]

For the last couple of weeks BBC Three has been running documentaries about racism and racial tensions in the U.K and USA. This week we saw a program called "Is Britain Racist?" it failed to prove much apart from black men are seen as more likely to steal from shops and women in Burka's are more likely to face verbal abuse.

As a second generation Black Briton from Jamaica, I have faced racism many times, I do believe the UK is a racist country but it is a in the closet type of racism that is hard to prove. The UK unlike the USA has a type of racism in which few people are openly racist, but racism is deeply ingrained into are mindsets as the program explored.

The presenter who comes across as a very anti racist person still perceived black people as dangerous sub consciously when she had her brain scanned. You have to ask why? You have to ask why black people have been sub consciously viewed as angry, violent and criminals.

I am so proud of my family and my black, mixed and white children and stepchildren. My family represent the tolerant modern Britain that we have and should be proud of.

My son aged 15 was stopped and searched two weeks ago. My white stepson aged 15 has never been stopped and searched, despite them wearing similar clothes, my black son has been profiled by the same mentality explored in the documentary. The type of racism is so difficult to fight as it is so difficult to prove it is racism.

Britain comes across as a country that is improving in terms of race, but I believe certain people and aspects of the media always have to push the idea of white supremacy in different forms. In the past it was considered that black individuals were considered less intelligent now it is considered blacks are more likely to be criminals.

It would be interesting to hear what you think.

Thanks, Booyaka. I see now, especially since you were responding to a post farther upthread. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Tiger Woods has experienced racial discrimination and racial hatred. He has spoken about it. Success only goes so far.

Anyone in the public eye particularly women gets abuse etc. It's sadly how it goes. Anyway yes racism exists and we all need to work against it.

94% of the prison population is male, not because the police prosecute 100x more men than women and are biased but because men are pretty nasty at times. Much more crime is also committed by those with not much money so all the UK rich Asians, chinese etc tend not to be tasered. Who would taser you if your weekend hobby is golf and at night you're at home reading the chidlren stories rather than on the street.

I am not saying don't be vigilant about racism but I think Enlish people are much less racist than many other groups which is one reason people flock here. France banned the burka for example. The US has its special black issue we don't have here.

PacificMouse that's kind of the point. Black and posh is fine, black and poor isn't. In the UK at least, racism and class are inextricably linked. To return to my point about the Roma, one reason why we are so disadvantaged is very much class-based. We are the archetypal chav, even supplying the word itself. I personally get very little overt racism on account of being an educated middle-class teacher: that is class. I get the more insidious covert stuff, like well-meaning people saying that I don't come across as a gypsy, or haven't I done well for someone of my ethnic group. (And the more crass stuff like "jokes" about whether I can do somebody's drive, or earnest assurances from practitioners of woo that their great-grandmother was almost certainly a gypsy and had "the Sight").

Racism tout court is not the problem. The problem is the poverty of expectation for people of certain ethnic backgrounds.

grazia the problem in America is the whites not the blacks. the blacks aren't the 'issue' they are people who the whites have a habit of abusing, much like the whites in this country think that they should have free rein to abuse west Indians.

With the crime stats I think it's partly a socio economic thing. If you broke crime stats down so you had them seperately for each social sector of society, I bet the figures wouldn't be as swayed.

Plus it's a hypothesis that seems to be tested with no control group. Eg if I set out to prove black male teens are more likely to be carrying drugs, it's not really a fair experiment if 9/10 stop and searches are black teen males.

fith yy. It's the only group where using open racism is deemed socially acceptable.

grazia the problem in America is the whites not the blacks

I second that emotion. I remember hitch-hiking through the States in the seventies and the level of racism was frightening, from men who complete gentlemen to pale little me, god knows what would have happened if I'd been brown.

I'm sure there is a lot of unconscious racism in Britain. However, I've seen a lot of overt racism as well (I'm white, live in a very multicultural area). Some examples:

-I had a black boyfriend when I was 17. Had several comments about "stealing our men" from black girls in my year at sixth form.

-I'm a nurse. A lot of older white patients say "oh, I don't like those black nurses" etc

-Massive conflict between Asians from a neighbouring school and black students from my school. To the point we needed police outside at home time every day.

-My work friend is Caribbean, and is engaged to a Ghanaian. A lot of Ghanaian nurses bitch about her - again in a sort of "man stealing" vein.

-I've heard white people, when in an argument prefacing insults with black - so instead of "you wanker" it's "you black wanker" - as if this were more insulting.

I remember hitch-hiking through the States in the seventies

That was 40 years ago. Racism is still a big problem in the States, but we have made some progress since then.

Overt racism is prevalent in the us.my ds1 went to an all white preschool in Georgia and was told on one occasion when he was misbehaving 'only black folk do that'

There certainly is some racism in the UK. I don't think most people are nor that we are worse than other countries by any means but I'm the on the thread as I'm white and have always been unhappy about any racism and would like it to be stamped out.

much like the whites in this country think that they should have free rein to abuse west Indians.
Vvv sweeping statement and a massive over-generalisation
do not refer to everyone in this country as 'the whites' - MN would be all over you if you said 'the blacks'.

Havnt read the whole thread but wanted to just post that here in the UK both my dss as teenagers have been stopped and searched. Both white. No problem with that at all. Neither had they.

My teen dds have never been searched though.

So you haven't read whole thread but only posted to write about two white boys being stopped and searched? What is your point?

We know white people are stopped and searched. However there is a disproportionate level of stop and search which focuses on young black and Asian men because they look a bit 'dodgy'. Even in areas where most crime is not committed by black men. This is the systemic racism of the OP.

And even IN areas where high number of crime IS committed by BME men it is still disproportionate because the vast vast majority of BME people in those areas (like 99% of them) will not be criminals!

Stop the thread now, only black people suffer racism . They never ever dish it out and if they do, well it doesn't matter white ppl are privileged and it doesn't count.

So out of all the intelligent and interesting conversation on this thread that's what you got
Out of it chipstick. The OP was about ingrained racism in the context of his black children. That's what people have been discussing.
White experiences of racism have been heard but we have been discussing the ingrained systemic institutional racism experienced by BME people. Ok?

And your snidey time of repeating 'they' and terms like 'dish it out'
Do not paint you in a very good light. You sound bitter and angry about something. Problem with black people?

Snidey tone

I don';t think any of us dispute that it is harder to be black (and indeed female) than white and male. Those of us who are white on the thread are probably here because we are against racism and want it to stop.

I don't think white people should be excluded from debating the issues and indeed we aren't here. It's an interesting discussion.
Thie Guardian article may also be of interest

www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/13/tarantino-race-debate-isnt-black-and-white