To Think The UK is a Racist Country and the racism is deeply ingrained.

[ACoolDad]

For the last couple of weeks BBC Three has been running documentaries about racism and racial tensions in the U.K and USA. This week we saw a program called "Is Britain Racist?" it failed to prove much apart from black men are seen as more likely to steal from shops and women in Burka's are more likely to face verbal abuse.

As a second generation Black Briton from Jamaica, I have faced racism many times, I do believe the UK is a racist country but it is a in the closet type of racism that is hard to prove. The UK unlike the USA has a type of racism in which few people are openly racist, but racism is deeply ingrained into are mindsets as the program explored.

The presenter who comes across as a very anti racist person still perceived black people as dangerous sub consciously when she had her brain scanned. You have to ask why? You have to ask why black people have been sub consciously viewed as angry, violent and criminals.

I am so proud of my family and my black, mixed and white children and stepchildren. My family represent the tolerant modern Britain that we have and should be proud of.

My son aged 15 was stopped and searched two weeks ago. My white stepson aged 15 has never been stopped and searched, despite them wearing similar clothes, my black son has been profiled by the same mentality explored in the documentary. The type of racism is so difficult to fight as it is so difficult to prove it is racism.

Britain comes across as a country that is improving in terms of race, but I believe certain people and aspects of the media always have to push the idea of white supremacy in different forms. In the past it was considered that black individuals were considered less intelligent now it is considered blacks are more likely to be criminals.

It would be interesting to hear what you think.

Stairway- I said in a post that I beleive the most racist countries are the arab gulf states. The way they treat Pakistani/Indian/Bangladeshi migrants is appalling.

Racism comes from all races but it is more damaging when from white people as white people are the largest group and hold the most power.

If you read the Daily Mail you know we are a racist country.
If you look at the government we chose to elect you know we are a racist country - our government is very much of the, "I'm not racist, but.." persuasion.

I took my DS to the seaside yesterday. This White Woman gave my DS the most awful looks. DS attracts dirty looks from people, my gut instinct often than not tells me it is because he is Black/Dual Heritage. White men are the worst.

We are all human though, flowers.

And it's certain characteristics that set us off - religion, skin colour. Other characteristics - like height, eye colour, hair colour (red hair aside) and so forth don't attract this sort of reaction.

I think it's all learnt, I really do.

People who have grown up with lots of people with X characteristic see them as people, not stereotypes. Because they see them as what they are ie different people with different personalities, desires, interests, you know human beings.

It is true that in hard times people seem to group together and choose another group to blame and maybe try and kill, but in the UK, we are not in a live or die situation, there's no excuse really.

I am ashamed to hear about your experiences.
However I do think (hope too) racism is not so prevalent in the younger generation and it will hopefully die out by the time my children have grown.
I don't recognise the stereotype of angry and black and feel this must be an older generation perception. It certainly isn't something I ever hear mentioned outside of debates of this kind.

In my heart I know I'm not racist - but I am absolutely TERRIFIED of saying the wrong thing, offending anyone, appearing racist .... I think that's quite damaging. I've taught foreign students the majority of my life and as a white woman I always worry about coming across badly - asking the wrong thing. I tend to avoid asking questions in case it's taken as racist / offensive. And I've been called racist by many a teenage student!

We were never fully accepted by the parents or children in our middle class Guardian reading school. People were polite but we were never invited to things or included. It took me five years to suspect that colour was even a factor, but I am now convinced.

I went to a managers' conference at work recently, attended by 500 managers. There were 7 or 8 non white people there, which is not representative of the workforce or of London. And most of them were at the less respected and operational side of the business. And no black men at all.

I think there is racism here, but it's hidden. And amongst my less ' middle class' environments I find people much less racist and more friendly.

I don't think we're as bad as other countries such as France, some Scandinavian countries and Russia for example and I think we are more tolerant than some countries in the Middle East. Racism seems to be a human problem globe wide - some countries don't have much integration or mixed societies at all in order to test their thresholds for inclusive-ism and racial acceptance - I think it is improving and anything where many cultures come together peacefully (eg not through invasion of one country by another) it will always take time for such attitudes to diminish - I certainly think it is frowned upon generally in society to be racist - in most places someone who held such views would be less likely to be outward about them as they are not socially acceptable - there are of course twats everywhere and in every race nd walk of life.

You can test yourself to find out a little about your hidden biases. People think they don't have any but we all do. The first step to dealing with racism, sexism and so on is realising that it exists.

Well I know I'm not sexist - I'm a woman who considers herself to be feminist and works full time, I studied science at a-level etc

I did an unconscious bias test and I came out to have a mild to moderate association with men for science and women for humanities

This stuff is unconscious it's deep we don't even know we're doing it.

So I try and check myself even on the sexist stuff, my assumptions. I mean, eye opening.

I might try and find some links like I say there's a lot of this at work at the moment it's a hot topic, they are trying to increase diversity, and to do that they need to get people recruiting to get to grips with this stuff.

It depends who you ask. The Jewish community has one of the highest levels of hate crimes commited against it considering its small size but this doesn't get reported very often as Jews are classed as "white" so nobody cares.

Racism has no hope of dying out until re start to see a different type of black role model. Most young people follow young celebrities most young black celebs are rappers that continue the black crime thing.

Sole, my dual heritage DH has been passed over for promotion in every job he has had. He is very clever, great social skills etc. Am convinced his white bosses feel threatened by him. And the law (City/commercial) isn't a particularly diverse environment.

I sound very 'victim' here, but day to day, we just get on with our jobs. But we notice it.

It wasn't google! It was facebook

If you google unconscious bias there is reams of stuff, it's a widely accepted effect, the problem is, how do you tackle something people don't even know they are doing? If you can even get past the initial defence reaction this provokes. No-one likes to think "oh maybe I am subconsciously racist" or whatever it might be that they are trying to address.

Evil, my DCs have unfortunately often felt very excluded by the Jewish girls at their school. Their parents refused to let them come for play dates (we are I think respectable lawyers, not dodgy at all). Maybe subconscious racism is in us all. Or it was just those girls we met. And I have no doubt the Jewish community suffers racism too, which is equally unacceptable.

YY re Jewish Community evilcherub

Swastikas on the bus stops in Golders Green a couple of years back

Many synagogues round here don't publish their location - there's a phone number. Also last few years many have started to have "bouncers" for want of a better word at the doors.

The unconscious bias / work stuff / subtle things is one thing but of course there is plenty of in your face bog standard racism as well.

Re mixing, I'm very uncomfortable with religious sects in the UK that keep themselves separate.

And about less extreme groups who nonetheless don't like to mix. I was also at a school where some of the children kept to their own, as it were. This isn't any particular flavour of religion, it's a tribal thing I guess.

However I really feel that exposure and mixing are the only way to combat this and if groups keep themselves apart (and maybe their reasons are sound) it doesn't help.

We were never fully accepted by the parents or children in our middle class Guardian reading school. People were polite but we were never invited to things or included. It took me five years to suspect that colour was even a factor, but I am now convinced

This was unfortunately FULLY my experience, and worse than that my children were discriminated too. I have always lived in urban/multicultural environments and when the children were young we decided to move to a white rural area. I never felt so isolated, and only many years later, having moved back to a multicultural area, and my children to a multicultural school, I finally realised the ONLY reason was because of my culture. Very depressing.

I went to a managers' conference at work recently, attended by 500 managers. There were 7 or 8 non white people there, which is not representative of the workforce or of London. And most of them were at the less respected and operational side of the business. And no black men at all. sad

I agree with this too. I also believe I get discriminated when it comes to interviews/jobs, as people are less likely to call me for interview with a foreign name and surname.

I think there is racism here, but it's hidden. And amongst my less ' middle class' environments I find people much less racist and more friendly I absolutely agree with this too, and it has totally been my experience.

Sorry to hear your experiences Sovery, but strangely it's reassuring to realise it's not just us.

racisim is everywhere from a mixture of people what ever their colour where ever they come from. there will always be racisim. But i like to think that there are alot more people that are not racist than who are.

ACoolDad to your original question, the answer is undoubtedly yes!

It is almost impossible to get people with a privilege to understand that it even exists unless they have had to experience some of the life experiences of someone without that privilege.

So for instance you will often find parents of children with mixed heritage open to the conversation of race and the prevalence of subtle, systematic racism which occurs across the whole of this society BUT they are only able to acknowledge that through experience.

I have NO idea what it is like to be a white woman but I don't have the 'white privilege' which makes me comfortable to tell a white person how they should view THIER experiences as they often do, and as they have done and will continue to do throughout this thread.

There is A LOT of eductaed talk and discussion on race at the moment and for the first time there is some major contribution from people of different ethnicities including white. I would Google 'White privilege', its a good starting point for education on race issues and finding words and explanations for the everyday racism you DO experience.

But 70s, someone once explained the problem to me and I will try. If everyone is supposed to 'mix' and make sure everyone has friends and family who are a lovely statistically balanced set of everyone in their local community, invariably most white, vaguely Christian people would still be hanging out with other white, vaguely Christian people plus a few people of other ethnicities and races and religions. Because white, vaguely Christian people are in the majority. 80+% I think.

The BME people would have to rotate around making sure that they were marrying, being friends with and otherwise engaging white, vaguely Christian people. Their friend and family group would have to be 80+% white, vaguely Christian people.

BME people are seen to be 'keeping to their own' but in the vast majority of cases so are all the white people with maybe a couple of BME friends. DD for example was a birthday party last year and every child except her was Chinese, Korean or mixed heritage. They weren't 'keeping to their own' otherwise DD wouldn't have been there but if I had an issue I would think it was odd. I actually didn't notice until they were all lined up for a photo and one of the other mothers leaned over and said, "one of these is not like the other". She's got a terrible sense of humour. But I bet a would have noticed if every child was wearing a veil or headscarf. Because, we all notice certain things.

Britain is not a racist country but there are racists here, as everywhere. Although the audience for no-brain 'talent' shows are not going to be a good cross-section of the UK's thinkers, are they?

similarly if you read a tatty red-top you aren't going to get informed or intelligent opinion.

but racism is outlawed and a crime here. Doesn't stamp it out but it is a damn good start.

as for the Jewish community; the hate crime is constant and has been for decades. Doesn't help when kids aren't allowed to mix - this may because the parents won't let their kids in a non-kosher home but that really doesn't improve the situation.

And as mentioned above, the very worst contributors to the system of racism are those people that believe they are in no way racist. It shows an ignorance of racism, society, experiences outside of thier own and this is what we call white privilege. Anyone with a basic understanding of race would understand that it would be pretty much impossible not to be racist and I urge u not to engage in trying to make those who claim this stance in debate but rather direct them to tons of information about this which is easily available. You will waste your breath trying to prove something to someone that basically refuses to accept your experience over their view of themselves!

But the people that deny racism can do so because racism in the Uk is kept hidden.

Going back to the point of only white people i would say that whites have historically been the most racist race. Whites colonised and controlled 80% of earth. But all races can be racist.