To Think The UK is a Racist Country and the racism is deeply ingrained.

[ACoolDad]

For the last couple of weeks BBC Three has been running documentaries about racism and racial tensions in the U.K and USA. This week we saw a program called "Is Britain Racist?" it failed to prove much apart from black men are seen as more likely to steal from shops and women in Burka's are more likely to face verbal abuse.

As a second generation Black Briton from Jamaica, I have faced racism many times, I do believe the UK is a racist country but it is a in the closet type of racism that is hard to prove. The UK unlike the USA has a type of racism in which few people are openly racist, but racism is deeply ingrained into are mindsets as the program explored.

The presenter who comes across as a very anti racist person still perceived black people as dangerous sub consciously when she had her brain scanned. You have to ask why? You have to ask why black people have been sub consciously viewed as angry, violent and criminals.

I am so proud of my family and my black, mixed and white children and stepchildren. My family represent the tolerant modern Britain that we have and should be proud of.

My son aged 15 was stopped and searched two weeks ago. My white stepson aged 15 has never been stopped and searched, despite them wearing similar clothes, my black son has been profiled by the same mentality explored in the documentary. The type of racism is so difficult to fight as it is so difficult to prove it is racism.

Britain comes across as a country that is improving in terms of race, but I believe certain people and aspects of the media always have to push the idea of white supremacy in different forms. In the past it was considered that black individuals were considered less intelligent now it is considered blacks are more likely to be criminals.

It would be interesting to hear what you think.

Because calling someone 'black' here has nothing to do with their skin colour and everything to do with their hygiene

That really isn't the case though, the word 'black' has a variety of context dependent meanings, just like in England. So what about terms like 'half caste' or 'chinky'?

There isn't mass gatherings against different races in scotland

Which was precisely the point I made in my previous post. I argued that there was more casual and insidious racism and ignorance then I'd seen exhibited in multicultural cities in England.

Luckily you illustrated my point beautifully by making a series of casually racist and ignorant comments in your previous post, so cheers for that.

Aye but they're no meant that way either are they? It's just a description. Half cast and chinky are used here also by the very people (or in actual fact cuisine) who are that to describe themselves coz it's how we talk. The sentiment behind it is very different.

Coincidentally one of my best pals is half cast this is what she calls herself and what we call her. I just messaged her and asked her if she would prefer bi racial. Her answer was a crying with laughter emoji followed by "you dae that hen n al punch ur puss"

I would imagine the majority, albeit a small majority, are not racists. But it broke my heart the other day when I learnt that my friends' teenage children were being stopped and searched in Norwich, when they are among the nicest, most decent kids I have ever met. So yes, racism exists and is well ensconced in the police force at least.

Sprocket stop being provocative.

Sprocket, are you winding us up?

I am of the opinion that if you don't like a behaviour then challenge it.
Many years ago I was at a football match with my dh. His team v mine. It was a home game for his team and we were stood in his end (me in my team shirt).
Someone stood in front of us started using racist language and I told him to stf up. He started to give me lip until everyone around told him to shut up.

I hope I educated someone that day, however little.

As a white woman I have challenged sexism, people are people.

Sprocket you are failing to recognise that people can be ignorant and/or have misconceptions about their own ethnic background.

A piece of research was done with White and Black school children, getting them to complete an exam, the same children were then asked to complete a similar exam but we're skied to complete an ethnic monitoring form immediately before taking it. In the second test children who didn't tick 'white british' got on average ten percent less than their score on the first test. So just by being reminded of their ethnicity (and thus the stereotypes attached to their ethnicity) the black children did less well.

My friend used to use the term 'half caste' for himself, as that is what his parents taught him. But times change, people get educated and learn to question what they take as the norm.

Skied=asked

I just messaged her and asked her if she would prefer bi racial. Her answer was a crying with laughter emoji followed by "you dae that hen n al punch ur puss"

So this friend you messaged at ten to three in the morning speaks for all mixed-race people everywhere.

Maybe the Commission for Racial Equality should appoint you the sole arbiter on all diversity issues.

I think there are certainly many racists in Britain and any community has the potential to be racist.

People have a natural instinct to reject difference. Hopefully that can be overridden by an equally natural instinct to make a connection and empathise.

Just an anecdote about my personal experience. I was watching a program on the TV which had a famous poet presenting. He used an unusual word at one point. I immediately thought he had pronounced it wrong and felt superior because I knew better. Because he was black and spoke with a non rp accent I caught myself thinking that I was better educated and superior to him because I am white. Even though he is someone I admire and an expert with words. It shocked me how easily I had fallen into a racist mindset. I just assumed I was right. I wasn't of course.

Yanbu. Just because the UK isn't the worst for it doesn't mean it's acceptable.
I'm white, Dds father is white, and the majority of both families are white. Because historically both sides contain a mix of races, some of which are dark Caucasians and some of which aren't Caucasian, dd in no way resembles a caucasian. Most people guess she's half asian, and unless I'm there to give it away, is darker than some full Asian heritage children.
It's fair to say she hasn't as yet experienced racism personally. But I think in part that's because we live in an area where the stereotype of Asian is more likely to be 'doctor'. And our local area is small enough everyone knows each other, so there's never been the chance for anyone to isolate themselves.

I do however have the same experience of 'where is her father from?' 'Where is she from?' Etc outside the pleasant bubble of the local area.

Dds friendship group from primary contains dd, a black girl, a blonde girl and a Mediterranean dark girl. Round here, nobody finds that remotely odd. But I have noticed, as have the other mums, that when you take them into a big town etc which is supposedly more multicultural, they do attract stares when en masse. Some of that could be people thinking it's nice, some may find it odd. But I just find it sad anyone would find it interesting. The odd things about their friendship group are things like one being a very anxious introvert and the rest aren't. Or two of them being opposite ends of the bell curve. Or the fact for the most part they all have wildly different pastimes, or one being very girly and two being the opposite. Or one having sn that impacts every aspect of her social interactions, while another breezes through. Not something as completely unimportant as how they look.

I think too dd aside it's often more the hidden racism, because it's harder to object to. Like assuming friends need people to speak slower to them on account of their skin colour, or the 'where are you from' when they have a local accent. Or the ott pc approach which immediately indicates 'othering'. I don't mean people who are just trying not to be offensive, but like when within minutes of meeting dd someone started banging on about how great they thought multiculturalism was, and asking where I'd met her father etc when it was completely out of context for the conversation and situation. Or the assumption that because he isn't involved he must therefore have gone 'back home'.

Yy on what you are privy to. Because I'm white I've been subject to people thinking I will be on board with their racist opinions automatically. But in fairness neither do I think the majority of white people are closet racists.

I'd agree racism can be ingrained. Even though I've rarely suffered it, never at work, not even in City law firms (gender bias was a much bigger issue).

Even in 'multicultural' London, its there. In the faces of the 'liberal' parents when they look round their local school and see lots of non-white children. In the way 'middle class' parents flock together to live in certain areas, barricading themselves from those they perceive as 'different' to them.

I'm probably just as biased and I'm an ethnic minority, socio-economic perceptions are just as divisive as race, probably more so in London.

I think there is a particular kind of vile, insidious racism though towards black men. I couldn't compare my experience with theirs.

I don't think that the people who feel uncomfortable In an ethnic minority class for example are necessarily racist. I'm from a very rural, very white area and there are some real nasty racists out there (S. Wales valleys). They're disgusting and I dont class myself as anything like them. I'm not afraid of black people. I do feel a bit wary at being the only white person in a room though and I don't think that's racist - I'm not scared - but it does feel strange, and has given me empathy on how minorities must feel a lot of the time. I think the big problem isn't in multicultural areas but in the small rural villages where most children don't really encounter anyone different to them until they leave home and go and live in a town or city. Many don't and they're the ones posting vile things on social media. It seems astonishing, but even in this day and age there are 20 year olds who haven't seen a person who isn't white Welsh. As a result many of them are racist - not acceptable at all but not difficult to see why when you Consider their background and their parents views must have some kind of an influence.

The UK is one of the least racist countries I can think of (in fact I can't wait think of any I'd consider better in this regard but that's down to my own ignorance I'm sure!) but there is still racism here on a personal level as well as institutional.

I naively thought racism was pretty much extinct when I was younger. I knew some of my elderly relations who I never saw were a bit racist but thought it would die out with them. I was the only white person in my friendship group and never heard any racism directed at anybody. We all used to make jokes about our differences but nothing bad natured.

When I went to university I discovered a big difference. I met middle and upper class people for the first time, most of whom were white and IMO a lot of whom seemed to be on the racist side. Not always in an obvious way but it was there, I don't know how to describe it.

Then I met my dp's family who are from a very white, leafy part of London and I encountered direct racist attitudes. This is from his parents and siblings, one of whom is a teacher. The fact he is a teacher and I know how racist (and sexist) his private views are really upsets me. I was pleased when he moved schools to a more white area actually. As a whole his family have toned down the racist remarks they make around me, probably since they have discovered that most of my friends aren't white. I doubt their opinions have actually changed.

Nursing homes are having problems with the elderly white generation being so racist but then they've been brought up with minstrel shows and white supremacy.

And eternal it was racist.

seneca they might not get money for going to Jamaica but white people are treated so much better then black people even there. If a white person is found dead the police will investigate it and they'll be huge amounts of trouble. Another black person oh well. In Jamaica they are bombarded with western ideas of beauty, bleaching creams and perms to straighten their hair. Some families don't let their daughters be with very dark men as they want a light skin black family.

Domestic abuse is rife but the police don't do anything about it, unless the victim is white. White supremacy rules even in a black Country.

Minstrel shows and signs saying no dogs, no coloured, no Irish are in living memory.

A timely reminder of this poem which I taught for about 8 years.
For people like sproke who think because one friend and one poor Chinese restaurant owner are ok with racist terms
It's ok to use them. No it's ducking not. Those people are a product of their racist environment and have had no choice but to give in to years of ingrained racism. In no fucking normal
Universe is it ok to call Chinese people chinky.

Half-Caste by John Agard

Excuse me
standing on one leg
I’m half-caste.

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when Picasso
mix red an green
is a half-caste canvas?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when light an shadow
mix in de sky
is a half-caste weather?
well in dat case
england weather
nearly always half-caste
in fact some o dem cloud
half-caste till dem overcast
so spiteful dem don’t want de sun pass
ah rass?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean tchaikovsky
sit down at dah piano
an mix a black key
wid a white key
is a half-caste symphony?

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
Ah listening to yu wid de keen
half of mih ear
Ah looking at yu wid de keen
half of mih eye
an when I’m introduced to yu
I’m sure you’ll understand
why I offer yu half-a-hand
an when I sleep at night
I close half-a-eye
consequently when I dream
I dream half-a-dream
an when moon begin to glow
I half-caste human being
cast half-a-shadow
but yu must come back tomorrow
wid de whole of yu eye
an de whole of yu ear
an de whole of yu mind.

an I will tell yu
de other half
of my story.

It's even better when listened to. Will see if I can find a recording

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5KqyVpMJ1gI

I think racism has moved onto members of the Eastern European accession states tbh. I don't know if black people meet the same level of discrimination as they used to. I can't remember the last time i witnessed it but i am a white person living in a very multicultural city. But I can certainly see more Britain First posts about Muslims popping up on my time line and people commenting on Polish and Lithuanians stealing British jobs etc. It's almost as if it is now acceptable to be derogatory about a person's religion, beliefs or work ethics just as long as you don't mention colour.