To Think The UK is a Racist Country and the racism is deeply ingrained.

[ACoolDad]

For the last couple of weeks BBC Three has been running documentaries about racism and racial tensions in the U.K and USA. This week we saw a program called "Is Britain Racist?" it failed to prove much apart from black men are seen as more likely to steal from shops and women in Burka's are more likely to face verbal abuse.

As a second generation Black Briton from Jamaica, I have faced racism many times, I do believe the UK is a racist country but it is a in the closet type of racism that is hard to prove. The UK unlike the USA has a type of racism in which few people are openly racist, but racism is deeply ingrained into are mindsets as the program explored.

The presenter who comes across as a very anti racist person still perceived black people as dangerous sub consciously when she had her brain scanned. You have to ask why? You have to ask why black people have been sub consciously viewed as angry, violent and criminals.

I am so proud of my family and my black, mixed and white children and stepchildren. My family represent the tolerant modern Britain that we have and should be proud of.

My son aged 15 was stopped and searched two weeks ago. My white stepson aged 15 has never been stopped and searched, despite them wearing similar clothes, my black son has been profiled by the same mentality explored in the documentary. The type of racism is so difficult to fight as it is so difficult to prove it is racism.

Britain comes across as a country that is improving in terms of race, but I believe certain people and aspects of the media always have to push the idea of white supremacy in different forms. In the past it was considered that black individuals were considered less intelligent now it is considered blacks are more likely to be criminals.

It would be interesting to hear what you think.

Scotland has every bit a problem with racism if not more. Again it's often subconscious but it's there. Many communities have a lot less non whites in their everyday lives than you would find in many English cities and towns so they are often interested in minorities because it's different and they don't feel threatened or see their community changing much. But they very much often see a different skin colour as being "other". I also often hear Paki and Chinky being used where as I very rarely hear it in the South of England even though there are many more minorities mixed through the community.

But it's not used in a derogatory way most of the time. Jaz in our local shop refers to herself as a paki and tales no offence to it whatsoever. And the woman in the chinky here calls her own shop 'the chinky' as she says nobody here says they're going to the fish and chip shop, they're goin for a chippy. Truth is your more likely to get your head kicked in for being in the wrong part if town with a celtic or rangers top on than you are for your skin colour.

And same with Indian btw. Nobody says they're going for Indian food, they're gone up the curry hoose.

And literally just proved my own point. Phoned a pub in a wee town well known for its orange walks looking for my middle kids dad and hear them shout to him 'thurs a fuckin feenyan on the phone fir ye'

Wait, how could they know you practised Catholicism by your telephone voice?

Did you ask for them and then added 'blessed be the holy mother' after it ?

Jeff,
Accent and name are usually a pretty strong indicator. DH says he can tell straight away where someone is Catholic or Protestant from hearing them speak or knowing their name (Catholics have 'Irish' names, Protestants have British ones) despite not coming from a sectarian family or area

YABU, but only kind of. Those parts of the UK I'm familiar with are less racist than most parts of the US and Europe (which isn't saying a massive amount), but then again it depends on your definition of racism. Is it prejudice based on skin colour? If so, I think the UK is pretty damn good on being inclusive there.

On the other hand, I think that the people of the UK are incredibly tribal. It's not racism per se, just prejudice. "I dont like the Scousers/Gypsies/Welsh/Brummies/Scots" kind of thing. Which doesn't make it any more acceptable, of course, but I don't necessarily think that prejudice based solely on skin colour is prevalent. It's far from absent, obviously, but I don't think we're in the same boat as the US.

What spare change said. My maiden names a Mc, my first husband was a Mc, my current husbands a Mc (never married the Proddy one ) but they knew it was me. I've phoned before loads of times. They just can't bring themselves to speak my name. I can't even go in. If u go to pick him up or something I have to wait outside and toot the horn. They've got rangers wallpaper on the walls too and it's not even in Glasgow. The Catholic schools get out 10 mins after the Proddy ones here too so they don't fight.

We've got Muslims who run two shops here, Chinese English turks poles etc and all of them have integrated really well in the community. Most of them have been here long enough to have convincing scottish accents and speak like the locals. Last week there was a supposed sdl rally in Edinburgh (meant to be the Scottish version of the edl) but only a few muskets showed up. I've seen more folk Turn up for an orange walk in a wee mining village if I'm honest

Why are scots always lumped the gether fith? we've got weegies, teuchters, fifers, doonhamers, bonnets, etc

YANBU OP. Britain suffers from closet racism. I have seen it in RL as well as on MN. And when it is brought to people's attention they minimize, deny and of course protest that "not all white people are like that". Even those who make clearly and blatantly racist remarks will deny their racism and those whose racism is unconscious will back them up.

Until people are prepared to face themselves as they really are and challenge their own prejudices, I don't think anything will change any time soon.

Let's ask the approximately 17 people per day abused or attacked in Scotland because colour of their skin, ethnicity or nationality, shall we? And NI is even worse. Plus sectarianism.

Larkhall is like the land that time forgot (something many of the locals seem to be very proud of). It's an anomaly and luckily not many places quite like it in the UK. There are still very little in the way of minorities in these area though - they haven't really been tested on mixing with lots of different races and cultures (and they are too preoccupied with the whole sectarianism shite). But these bigots are still bigots and if they didn't have the time or the Huns to have a go at - I'm sure they would be happy to direct their bile elsewhere.

I think people in general have a suspicion of those who are 'different' to them be that by virtue of colour, religion, culture and that works both ways for 'natives' and 'incomers'.

Britain was until about 60 years ago, mainly made up of white, english speakers with a shared culture and I think the face of it has changed so much, in such a short time in terms of generations of people. There is still a lot of progress to be made but I don't think we are doing too badly. I think it will take another two/three generations for 'globalisation' to be completely accepted in this part of the world anyway.

As for police stop and searches, I think the harsh truth is that violent crime in certain areas is perpetuated by a certain demographic of the population and the police are right to put more emphasis on that demographic.

Does Jamaica welcome other races and offer support services and financial incentives to help them integrate, I wonder?

I can't speak for the UK but in Australia people whose families have been on the receiving end of terrible policies at some point tend to be less racist. The 'purists', of any religion or race, are the worst (often the wealthiest too) and when they gang up together, like they did in both world wars, it can be pretty crap for the rest of us.

I certainly think it's true OP. I like to think of myself as not a racist and can honestly say I have never deliberately treated a person differently due to race, however I have noticed that I have instant gut reactions to certain ethnic groups, something I am alarmed and surprised at. It also something I am trying to change. I can't remember any family members ever making racist comments or such so it must be really really deeply ingrained in bits of society.

Agreed bambambini. Larkhall is a shitehole but am east coast so a would say that . Was it not larkhall or hearthill that's asda had to change to black and white coz the huns objected to its green and white logo and shop front? But that's my point all over isn't it. The large majority of problems in scotland (both in and out with Glasgow and Lanarkshire) are not racist but actually sectarian. And they don't have time to racist because being bigoted takes up all their time. Scotland and England are two very different countries with two very different cultures and two very different sets of problems

Totally agree with Dione. As soon as race is mentioned esp on MN people rush to minimise, deny, protest and most of all try to suggest that white people face the same amount of racism as non-white which is just not true.

I really feel that if you are white you honestly truly have no idea what it feels like to have your race be the absolute first thing people see and judge you on. That your Asian skin marks you out as a foreigner or a terrorist or a downtrodden woman or an immigrant or 'exotic' or whatever...

I've lived in London my whole life and still been called a Paki, a terrorist, a brown bitch etc. My brother has been stopped for driving a flash car in Hackney because he is brown.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24902389

Stop and search is known to be racist in its implementation. Has nothing to do with crime being carries out by Blacks and Asians. It is just simply racist

YANBU

A lot of people are closet racists and if they think you're one of them (ie white) you get to hear all about it.

I'm amazed at some of the shit people share when they think you agree with them. From dropping the odd paki into conversation to outright racism it is there it's just well hidden.

Perfect example. I was talking about the new intake of reception kids/parents to another group of mums at the school. One says god I'm surprised any of them actually speak English titter titter titter. Once she'd shown her colours the others joined in with various shit about the smell of curries and why the little black kids were allowed elaborate braids when "our" kids aren't. Then a fun convo about how much makeup the black mums wore and why they talk like Jamaicans if they're so English.

Happens all the time between white people when they think they are among friends.

On a more trivial note I still feel a little awkward going to the theatre or to a fancy restaurant in London (!) or to DH fancy work do's because often we are the only ethnic minorities there. Honestly look around a place like the The Ivy next time you're there and see how many BME you see there!

DH works in finance. At the last Xmas meal he was one of 5 Asians and there was only 1 black man in a group of maybe 100 people.

That's nothing to do with racism of course but just that feeling of being a minority hitting you in the face even in a place like London. And people look at you...they do.

Religious bigots have plenty of time to be racist, it may just be that their bigotry is so bad that their racism seems tame in comparison.

My experience has been that once you scratch the surface, a prejudiced person is prejudiced on many levels.

Last week there was a supposed sdl rally in Edinburgh (meant to be the Scottish version of the edl)

Having lived in Birmingham/London and Scotland, I'd argue that there is less violent racism in Scotland, but racism and prejudice is far more insidious here than it is in major English cities with large minority populations.

I remember being shocked by educated people in their 20s and 30s who'd use terms like 'half caste' 'coloured' or talk or getting a carry out from the chinky. In a number of cases they had never had a non-white friend or in the case of one person had not had any social interaction with a single non-white person who wasn't working in a shop or restaurant in their entire childhood.

I have seen racist language used openly in a way I've never heard before. When I first moved up here I worked at a visitor attraction with a number of older colleagues and all-white colleagues. Racist jokes would be bandied around the restroom and visitors would be referred to in public hearing using terms like 'Hamiltons' or 'Tickleds' which was pretty disgusting. Management were aware of this but constantly cocked a deaf ear to the problem, presumably because there were no BME staff no one was going to get offended.

Yanbu, I don't think.

I did the Harvard test, MrsT linked to. My result came back with me having a slight implicit bias towards black people. Which surprised me a little, I assumed that as a white woman, I would have a slight bias towards white people, on a subconscious level.

Does Jamaica welcome other races and offer support services and financial incentives to help them integrate, I wonder?

What exactly do you mean? I take it you do know why the population of Jamaica is primarily of African descent.

Well there's a reason people here tend to use the term coloured or otherwise. Because calling someone 'black' here has nothing to do with their skin colour and everything to do with their hygiene. There isn't mass gatherings against different races in scotland, I'm not saying it's totally free of racism but it isn't a problem here on the same sale as it is in England. Same as the orange order isn't the same froblem in London or Birmingham like you mentioned but it is up here