Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To dislike the term "full time mum"

310 replies

LunchpackOfNotreDame · 04/10/2015 20:49

Last time I checked all mums were full time mums, you don't clock off when you go to work.

What's wrong with housewife or stay at home mum or unemployed? When did being a parent become an employment status?

OP posts:
Kampeki · 05/10/2015 17:51

So why are you bothered by what other people call themselves if you are happy with your lot. What difference does it make to you.

This question wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway.

I am very happy with my situation, and have never felt in the least conflicted about my decision to work. I spent my own teenage years wishing that my mum would get a job because she was clearly miserable at home, so I don't have any baggage from my childhood about working mums. My dd is happy and thriving, and we have always had a very close relationship, and we spend lots of tune together. I'm also fortunate that DH and I both have extremely flexible roles, he pulls his weight at home and we have never had to depend heavily on paid childcare - we did have a nanny for 3-4 hours a day when dd was a baby but we haven't used any paid childcare since she started school six years ago. I never miss assemblies or sports days, can work from home if dd is sick.

I am the main breadwinner in our family, so haven't ever really had to consider the option of giving up work, but I really don't feel that I have missed out at all as a result of having a job and I wouldn't choose to give it up if the opportunity arose.

However, I think the terminology does matter. I think it matters immensely, because although it doesn't affect me directly, I see the impact on other working mothers - including some of those who I line manage - who do feel guilty and conflicted about the time they spend in work. Women who are absolutely bloody fantastic parents, who beat themselves up about not conforming to the expectation that mothers should want to devote their entire lives to their kids. Women who would love to stay at home with their kids but instead work incredibly hard in paid employment because they need to put food on the table. Women who are doing a fabulous job of raising fabulous children, who end up feeling inadequate as parents because they aren't present for every second of the day.

The men that I line manage don't experience this guilt or these conflicts in the same way, because to a large extent, society doesn't judge fathers for going out to work. Many women do feel judged, and I think that the terminology feeds into this. People may not intend to offend, But inherent in the notion of a "full-time parent" is the suggestion that other parents are not full-time. The unspoken implication is that those who go out to work - the part-time parents - are somehow lesser parents than those who stay at home.

At the end of the day, I respect the choices that all parents make about the balance between family life and paid employment. I accept that some families feel that having a parent at home works better for them. Personally, I would not use the term "unemployed" because I know that many people feel it misrepresents their situation, and I respect that view. However, I will continue to argue against any terminology that I think fuels the guilt that so many working mothers feel, because our use of language is what helps to shape our understanding of the world.

I have a daughter. I don't know what she will want to do in the future, if and when she has children of her own. She may want to go out to work, she may want to stay at home and look after them. Perhaps she will end up working at home, only time will tell. I would like to think that she will not feel judged or guilty about any of her choices. In the meantime, I will try to ensure that she isn't exposed to language that is loaded with value judgements.

SoupDragon · 05/10/2015 18:06

A mum is a mum all the time whether at work or not. Just as they are when the child is at school or on a play date.

I'm not being a mother when my children are at school.
I'm being just me.
I am a SAHM but am no longer a full time mother and guess what, I don't feel any kind of irritation at those who refer to themselves as one. Mostly because I m not stupid.

SoupDragon · 05/10/2015 18:09

Personally, I would not use the term "unemployed" because I know that many people feel it misrepresents their situation, and I respect that view. However, I will continue to argue against any terminology that I think fuels the guilt that so many working mothers feel, because our use of language is what helps to shape our understanding of the world.

So, you will only "not use" the term unemployed when used for SAHMs but you will argue against phrases that make working mothers feel bad...? Why won't you argue against terminology that affects SAHMs?

SoupDragon · 05/10/2015 18:12

And the term ""unemployed doesn't misrepresent the situation for a SAHM, its fucking offensive.

Openup41 · 05/10/2015 18:43

The statement below is not meant to be antagonistic in any way.

A mother I know of has never worked for various reasons. She receives income support and other benefits. She often says she enjoys being a sahm and being around for her children who both attend nursery/school. I genuinely assumed 'sahm' was used as a term to describe women who choose to stay at home and be financially supported by their spouses/husbands.

Kampeki · 05/10/2015 18:45

So, you will only "not use" the term unemployed when used for SAHMs but you will argue against phrases that make working mothers feel bad...? Why won't you argue against terminology that affects SAHMs?

Actually soup, if you track back to my very first post on this thread, you will find that I did say that the use of the term "unemployed" was wrong. I don't find the value-laden language helpful on either side.

As for it being offensive, that's for others to decide, but I certainly get why people would feel that way and I respect how they feel. Shame that others aren't able to accept that the term "full time mum" is equally offensive to many of us.

Mintyy · 05/10/2015 19:24

Oh how I wish it were possible to just post COBBLERS without getting oneself deleted.

Duckdeamon · 05/10/2015 19:28

It's an oldie but a goodie thread.

SoupDragon · 05/10/2015 19:30

Shame that others aren't able to accept that the term "full time mum" is equally offensive to many of us

Spot the difference between these two statements:

I am a full time mother

You are unemployed.

One is a statement of what a person considers themselves to be, the other is a statement of what a person should consider themselves to be.

The equivalent would be "you are a part time mother". Anyway, I don't use the phrase full time mother and never have. I "took redundancy and stayed at home to look after my children".

As for it being offensive, that's for others to decide

No it isn't. I am perfectly able to decide that for myself. Calling a SAHM unemployed is fucking offensive and it's interesting that it was a working mother who objects to the phrase "full time mother" who introduced this description....

I not sure I understand why women are so bloody spiteful to each other.

SoupDragon · 05/10/2015 19:31

I hiding this thread because it's so pointless.

jorahmormont · 05/10/2015 19:31

At the end of the day, if you are a WOHP who feels superior to SAHP, you're a cunt.
If you're a SAHP who feels superior to WOHP, you're a cunt.

If you're a reasonable person get on with your life, stop caring what other people call themselves, stop assuming that someone calling themselves a full time mum is automatically calling you a part time mum and just get on with it.

No need for all this fuckery.

ilovesooty · 05/10/2015 19:36

Economically inactive is obviously also wrong (and just trying to stir)

I resent the last part of that statement. I made it clear that the forms and databases I work with simply do not have an alternative to that definition if someone is not working and not actively seeking work. I also said that it wasn't a phrase people would use to define themselves in conversation.
How is that stirring?

DixieNormas · 05/10/2015 19:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NewLife4Me · 05/10/2015 20:27

kampeki

So we should all watch how we refer to ourselves in case we offend a working mum.
what utter rubbish. Grin
Call yourselves what you want if you must give yourself a badge of honour.

fulldutypaid · 05/10/2015 20:31

What on earth is wrong with the saying? A full time mum means you look after your children "full time", and a very commendable job it is.

DaftVader36 · 05/10/2015 20:46

Hey sooty, I didn't read back far enough to the original post where "economically inactive" must have been first mentioned. Apologies for not RTT and for accusation of stirring.

I am hiding this thread. I should have known to steer clear. Drives me bonkers when people argue about this. I don't think lines should be drawn between SAHM and working. The difference is those who could choose and those who couldn't. for those lucky enough to chose we should be happy and respect their decision. For those that can't we should have empathy if they are not happy.

(Pious rant over!)

Sallystyle · 05/10/2015 20:56

Not read the whole thread but what are those who don't work but have school aged- children?

I'm a full time mum, if I'm at work or not. I am a mum because I had children and raise them. 90% of the time I work they are at school anyway.

It doesn't offend me if someone says they are a full time mum because I very much doubt they are trying to offend others and I try not to take offence at how other's want to label themselves.

I was a SAHM/carer for 16 years. When asked what I do I would tell people that I have children and do not work.

I could say I'm a part time mum, a part time auxiliary nurse and a more than a part time carer.

Cel982 · 05/10/2015 21:01

There's a difference between 'being a parent' and 'caring for your children'. The first is who you are (among many other things, obviously), once you have kids; the second is the job. I can see why 'full-time mum' bothers people, and wouldn't use it myself. 'Unemployed' is both inaccurate and appallingly offensive.

ilovesooty · 05/10/2015 21:02

That's ok Daft

I must admit I'm a bit Hmm at economically inactive applying to sahm in the same way as ESA claimants. It seems too broad a brush really.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 06/10/2015 07:09

cel but why does 'caring for children' mean changing nappies but not earning money to pay for said nappies?

The UK is a markedly unequal society (becoming ever more so). Children born into families with lots of money have a huge advantage. Working so DC have that advanatage must surely be a parental act? And a valuable one at that?

BoboChic · 06/10/2015 07:53

As in all jobs, there are parts of parenting that are easy and/or better to outsource and parts of parenting that are core competencies with high added value that need to be done in-house.

AllMyBestFriendsAreMetalheads · 06/10/2015 08:19

If I were to describe myself as a full-time electrician, no-one would assume I meant that I was electrician-ing (Grin) 24/7. If someone tells me they work full-time, I understand that means that they work 40-45+ hours a week rather than permanently.

It's a term with an accepted definition in our society. We all know that it doesn't literally mean all the time. When (most) people use the term 'full-time mum' they mean that the time that would normally be spent in paid employment is being spent with their children. 40-45 hours. I think some people are reading meanings into the phrase that just aren't there. It seems like both 'sides' feel defensive about their choices, leading me to believe that women often get negative responses whichever they choose to do.

And given the responses to some SAHM about their "unemployment" here I can understand why some women don't want to say that they're not in paid work whilst their children are young. And that's without the idea prevalent in society that anyone who isn't a taxpayer is a workshy scrounger. Is it any wonder some mums worry about the response they might receive for admitting unemployment?

Of course, some people are just knobs and will judge you harshly whatever choices you make. But fuck them. Let's not judge all full-time mummies on the behaviour of a few judgemental people and let's also not judge WOHMs because of the behaviour of some of those on this thread. We're all trying to do our best.

MorrisZapp · 06/10/2015 08:25

Metalhead has stated it clearly. The end!

hackmum · 06/10/2015 09:31

Coming late to this, I'm rather shocked and puzzled by the suggestion that we describe SAHMs as "unemployed".

Looking after small children is work, regardless of whether you're paid for it or not. If you're an SAHM, you're doing the same job that working parents are paying a childminder or nursery or nanny to do. The fact that you're not being paid for it doesn't stop it being work, and bloody hard work a lot of the time. Describing parents who do this as "unemployed" seems like a calculated insult - a devaluing of a job that is very important. Looking after children may be boring or unstimulating, and it certainly doesn't have career advancement opportunities, but it's absolutely essential. Children don't look after themselves.

Itsmine · 06/10/2015 10:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.