to think that there will be a revolution?

[Sillybillybonker]

Does anyone else think that people are going Corbyn crazy? Personally, I reckon that people in this country have become so accepting and demotivated by the lack of real choice in politics that they have lay politically dormant for years. Corbyn is speaking up for the poor, the sick and disabled, the mentally ill and the "hard working" people of society. Really, he is encompassing such a big sector of society whilst marginalising the super-rich. Surely, the majority are now going to step up and overthrow the Bullingdon Club PM?

Hahaha!

The people who are 'trotting out' these 'ideological points' on MN are usually the carers for those suffering children.

Sitting on MN all day isn't an option for them.

Insight my arse.

*Meanwhile apparently one in 4 major companies pay no tax in the UK - Google, Amazon, Starbucks, Vodafone, Experian, Rolls Royce

Y'see, this is why Corbyn-ites shouldn't be trusted to go anywhere near a government...
Firstly, George Osbourne announced in December that there would be a new tax for all multi-nationals with revenues over £10m who have got tax structures that minimise the tax they pay in the UK.

Secondly, most of those companies already do pay tax in the UK. But like a lot of policies, don't let the facts get in the way of a good pitchfork waving session...

Google paid £11.5m on profits of £36m
Amazon paid £11m on profits of £34m
Starbucks volunteered a payment of £20m
Vodafone haven't paid tax for a few years after paying the UK government £7BILLION for licences, and offsetting that against tax

I could go on, but it's not 'no tax'.
Those sort of statements show a woeful inability to understand how businesses work, and in some cases, even read a set of accounts. But if it makes for good ways to stoke up outrage, what's the problem, right?

I can see why some disaffected and left wing thinking people are attracted to Corbyn as "something different", but at the moment he is just talking motherhood and apple pie platitudes to make his supporters feel good. When it comes down to the hard tack of his policies and their implications I hope a lot of people will think again.

There is no money tree. "People's quantitative easing" is just a wanky term designed to dress up printing money with no means of support. As yet we have seen no legitimate, sustainable costings from Corbyn.

I also think it will be a very hard transition for him to move from a high principled position of rebellious idealist backbencher to the hard realities of the Leader of HM Opposition. He needs to stop acting like a protester and start acting like a potential leader of his country.

If you look at his speech yesterday it was all "follow me into the sunlit uplands brethren". OK for this year, but soon he needs to have solid policies in place. Then we shall see the measure of the man.

these threads do show how dim some people re, so caring about disabled children is wrong now. accepting that the tory cuts affect the most vulnerable is too much for dim people

is too much for dim people

Again, kinder politics is working well then (and I say that as one of the 'vulnerable people)

We don't even have enough homes in this country. Ordinary people are therefore having trouble accessing a basic human need. Does no-one else find this unacceptable? Is providing housing for all ideological nonsense? Should we accept the housing crisis as just one of those things?

We do have enough homes in this country.
We don't have enough homes in the parts of the country that a lot of people would prefer to live though.
And it is very difficult to get into a 'why don't we have enough houses' debate with the electorate without touching on immigration, which was one subject, along with the deficit, that Corbyn conveniently didn't discuss AT ALL yesterday

There is plenty of housing, just like there are plenty of jobs, but they're not the ones people want nor are they where people want them.

Sparechange is right. These companies that people like to trot out as paying no tax do pay plenty of tax, and contribute a huge amount to this country. I find it really pathetic how people like to insist they don't.

As for house building, there has been a huge amount of building going on in my area since the coalition came in. Far far more than there ever was under labour. Yes there is a problem with housing, but even under labour I'd never think that's all the governments fault. The way we live has changed, there are so many separated families that now take up two homes rather than one, no one wants to live in the same house as their parents when they have children like used to happen, European migration has had an effect, our population has grown as many people have as many children they want knowing they will be supported by the state. There's lots of factors at play, and some of that is down to us the people, not the government.

David Cameron uses his disabled child to score ideological points all the time, he often does it to shut down debate on the NHS.

Also I think Corbyn's politics are a little far off communism no? Bit dramatic to make those comparisons.

I'd like a more socialist government for sure though.

Samcro these threads do show how dim some people re, so caring about disabled children is wrong now. accepting that the tory cuts affect the most vulnerable is too much for dim people

No, it shows that telling clever, hard working taxpayers repeatedly that they are dim and misguided doesn't work. It shows that there is something deeply wrong with the left wing in the country. They are not performing well. It shows that they cannot learn from their mistakes, cannot understand what the majority want and that they want to demonise and/or infantilise perfectly decent people. Insulting people into voting for you doesn't work, it simply alienates people.

Since poverty got worse under Labour, and most local authorities in charge of social services consistently make appalling mistakes, doesn't that show that no matter how much funding you give, the real problem is in the delivery and the fact that the failing left wing in this country put ideological rhetoric (and all too often turn it into bullying and insults) before real people?

Why can't we have a proper left wing in this country which actually delivers for the majority of people, instead of setting up ever more favoured groups of the unfortunate as victims to be used in an ideological war.

Scremer well said, am in a caring profession hard working and certainly am not selfish or wanting to put all disabled children on the streets. The left in this country use such vile emotive language and short sighted behaviour I cannot see myself ever voting for them again.

There won't be a revolution. We live in a very stable country with established institutions.
The point about the number of members of the Labour party increasing has no bearing on the electoral chances of said party in four and a half years time. Some people will have registered just to vote in the leadership contest, so I predict the membership numbers will drop in a years time. Also, the vast majority of people don't belong to any political party but still vote. It is those people they need to persuade to vote for them, not existing members. I remain to be convinced they will be able to do this.

Lighteningirl I often wonder when people like Samcro tell me I'm dim, what is stopping them from doing my job and paying my (higher rate) taxes? My job is really stressful, involves very long unpaid hours and is highly competitive. It also required very high exam marks to get into and years of hard work and a lot of scrimping and saving on a low trainee salary even after that. I came from a failing school so had no assistance with contacts. So if that's dim, I'm probably too dim to be working at all and should just give it all up.

Child Poverty went down under Labour

It can only be a matter of moments before a real life example of a victim of the bedroom tax is trotted out to be used to make the point of fairness. Or a disabled child.
Equally tedious.

Loads won't do my long hours setting up my own business/paying a mortgage years as a single parent worse off than my non working/part time benefit claiming friends who are now screaming blue murder about having to move from their three beds now they have no dc left at home. I welcome some of the changes and worry about some we need a benefit system/economy that rewards hard work and protects the truly vulnerable. Not a blanket throwing out of money to anyone who asks with no ability to keep the supply going (printing money IS NOT the same as making it)

lighteningirl I work an 18 hour day, every day, with no holidays and no respite care because 'the cuts' removed it. A nurse for an hour every fortnight. I get 62 quid a week for that. So excuse me for screaming blue murder about cuts whilst being benefit scrounging scum.

Dawn you reinforce every point made above. Clearly some cuts are wrong and using that level of hyperbole in response to my reasoned post is why we have the phraseology lefties it's either agree with you 100% or we are over the madness horizon and accelerating.

Phrase loony lefties

Policies have changed and councils have a legal obligation to support their vulnerable residents.

As a disabled parent that works full time I have no issue with the cuts. My life was horrific under labour. People cite foodbanks as a bad thing but there were none when I was a single parent wondering how to feed my dc. I see them as a positive.

The bedroom 'tax' is a good thing in an age where people are complaining there is a lack of housing stock. Too right if your house is too big and it's provided by the state you should downsize, I bet these same people whilst waiting for their free house complained about the length of the waiting list too.

PIP, the disability benefit that's cited as being an impossible benefit to get isn't impossible to get. I was awarded it just a few months after sending my paperwork in.

Perhaps I live in a bubble, but I'm pretty sure I don't.

No it isn't. The hyperbole comes in when you discuss benefit scroungers, along with the Express and the Mail. Despite even government figures, figures that some are prepared to believe on all other points, stating that benefit fraud is minimal (less than half a percent with DLA) and that 'scrounger' types are also few and far between, nobody chooses to believe said figures, but they do choose to believe the 1930s rhetoric spouted by the press about the deserving and the undeserving poor. I have always been left wing, although come from a predominently slightly right of centre background, and I have had no problems with some Tory governments. I admit to hating (with a burning passion) Thatcher, but lived with Major, this government however, have gone further than Thatcher dared to go. The sanctions for those in receipt of benefits is nothing short of cruel, and for those of us living with disabilities, again, the regime is a cruel one, so cruel that it's being investigated by the European Court and has been chastised on more than one occasion by the European Parliament, adding of course to the wish to leave Europe.
(By the way, despite promising otherwise, the bedroom tax does affect those with disabilities).

The sanctions for those in receipt of benefits is nothing short of cruel, and for those of us living with disabilities, again, the regime is a cruel one, so cruel that it's being investigated by the European Court and has been chastised on more than one occasion by the European Parliament, adding of course to the wish to leave Europe. (By the way, despite promising otherwise, the bedroom tax does affect those with disabilities).

Some of this is true, although the EU interest is the lack of a fair and independent hearing before a decision is made, not the actual decision itself. And don't pin your hopes on the EU removing the bedroom tax, since several major EU countries have exactly the same rules applying to state-sector housing, and have done for a number of years.

In fact, many of the Scandinavian countries, certainly Denmark much less generous state assistance for housing than the UK. In the more socialist EU countries, there is actually much less of everything to go around because everyone pays more tax, and there is more emphasis on working (even for single mothers) not least because benefits are often pegged for a number of years, diminishing annually by a percentage, to the last salary a person earned.

Oh, and in today's news,those stripped of benefits could be charged should they appeal
It took us 9 months to appeal dh's award. We were at the tribunal ten minutes, the judge laughed the dwp out of the room and refused them leave to appeal.
Bristol law students are turning over something like 90% of decisions.
Ridiculous situation.