to plan our visit around SIL

[cjt110]

Christmas.

SIL lives abroad and comes over with her kids and husband for approx 3 weeks and stays at MILs. We live 150 miles away and travel down. On the last 2 occasions we have stayed at a hotel because - and I quote - there is no room at the Inn.

It costs us approx £120 to £150 for a 2 night stay (£40 diesel, £60 hotel, £20 breakfast plus on one occasion we had to buy our own tea as they had dinner early).

PIL live in a 3 bed house. SIL takes up 2 spare rooms with her, her husband and the 2 children (aged 2 and 4). The room SIL stays in is big enough to "house" all 4 of them. We were suggested before "Oh just sleep on the living room floor. So we would have to wait until all go to bed, having our DS (13m) disrupted in a cot in the lounge and get up at the crack of dawn when everyone else gets up. When we went last time, SIL was particularly rude to me on a few occasions even causing raised eyebrows from MIL (who didnt say a word).

We have decided we will go down either before/after SIL visits. When we went last time, not only was she rude to me, she barely spoke a word to either of us, let her kids run riot (eg. allowing her duaghter to rifile through my handbag and run around with a steak knife in her hand - stating "Oh zipping your bag up wont stop her" No, but you moving your child and telling her not to will.

Anything I post on facebook always gets neagtive/sarky comments from her. Two recent examples, I posted a funny video of son running/walking in his walker and she commented with "I don't like walkers. Neither of my two children had them. I think they're ugly" Not adding anything to the video or anything of value. I put a status up about how after emptying a box of duplo onto the floor, that my son had tidied up each and every piece into the box. She then commented with "It wont last. Kids arent tidy" I replied with well maybe it won't but encouraging him to do it seems to work as he has been doing it more and more" Her reply was Nah. Wont last.

At christmas gone, we bought her a salt and pepper set in the shape of Mickey and Minnie Mouse. She likes Disney. We had thought about what to get her and she just went oh thanks/. Probably won't use them so I'll just sell them on ebay WTAF! She got us presents that were clearly unthought about. I asked people not to get me smellies etc as I didnt use any that were bought for me the year before and she got me a showergel - not even a set, just a single showergel and a cheap £1 diary and got DH a keyring. I dont care of the amount, it's the degree of thought that goes into a gift. There were none in those gifts. She had the cheek to ask DH should she keep an eye out for the postman when it was her birthday - she NEVER sends him a birthday card.

AIBU to avoid when she is there? We get no joy from seeing her. She doesn't interact with us when we are there and it just feels awkward trying to be polite and civil when I get more conversation and enjoyment from a plant.

cjt110, fine if your DH doesn't want to be there at the same time as SIL. But it sounds as though her marriage is on the rocks, if not over. You and DH are the last people she would want to know about it if I'm right.

I agree with those saying disengage with the ILS and SIL on FB and restrict their access to your page. Start now, and when the time is right DH can tell his parents you are staying home for Christmas.

Can you both cultivate a relationship with BIL and his GF separately from family events?

Hi CJT110, your sister in law sounds toxic. As much as your posts on facebook are friendly and well-intended they seem to be providing an arena/opportunities for her to continue to be toxic and unpleasant to you from afar. From the posts you've quoted I can just about believe siblings would talk to each other like this in private if they were in a bad mood (and apologise later) but to talk to your in-laws like this on a public arena crosses boundaries and you've shown a lot of composure in not writing equally snappy/rude responses back.

A perfectly natural response to someone who is treating you with this level of respect is avoidance: you make the effort to visit at Christmas, SIL's behaviour makes you feel X, Y and Z and therefore you will avoid putting yourself in that situation again - a simple equation.

Avoidance this year, or for the next few years, doesn't mean forever but it's up to her to do half the work to make your relationship work. It may even act as a catalyst to help her see how her behaviour is affecting those around her e.g. one day she may find herself thinking "My husband hasn't come with me, my brother's family aren't visiting whilst I'm here, why is that?"

Avoid subjecting yourself and your family to her toxicity this Christmas and put that frustration into having a brilliant time and fostering relationships that are worthwhile - invite other friends/family to stay, hold a Christmas eve party - don't make it about 'not going there' but about 'enjoying it here'.

I would dig you heels in with the parents. Stop visiting for a bit until they take their turn at traveling. There's no reason you can't alternate between houses when meeting up.

Also meet SIL half way when visiting?

Might be worth avoiding putting opinions that can might make her defensive 'he must be tired after a busy few days' and go for positive ones like 'scrummy even when sleeping' or 'beautiful niece'

I wonder why she feels so defensive. If you had a good relation previously, I wonder what changed

Op you really do sound a little obsessed about and over-sensitive about your SIL. I don't get on with either of my SILs but apart from the few times a year I have to spend with them I don't give the fucking cows them any headspace. I'm biased as I'm not a fan of Facebook but I really think getting annoyed about things said on it is going to drive you insane. Just thank your lucky stars she lives abroad and not round the corner!

Neddyteddy Good suggestion - No doubt I'd get accussed of being an arse crawler or something though! Ive no idea why she turned like that. It seemed to be after the birth of her first child? Not that I'm saying thats the reason for it. So that would be around 4 years ago? I even remember the night before our wedding, her asking me if I was going to buy her some champagne she doesnt drink to celebrate her birthday. Just very bizzare thing to say when you don't drink and all your family have convened for someone elses special occassion and hastened to remind everyone how it was her birthday.

Lauren15 I just wish our relationship was better. I have honestly tried but get nothing back. and as for Just thank your lucky stars she lives abroad and not round the corner! Oh I do!

cjt - just an idea - if your SIL changed after teh birth of her first child, and her DH tends to do his own thing, the 2 things might be related, and she might possibly be envious of the fact that your DH is helping out more with your DC than hers does (Wild extrapolation but the timing would fit, and what you've said about him)

Possibly SIL'S DH has had enough of her if she treats him the same. Yes she may well be envious of (in her eyes) your seemingly perfect DH, marriage, DS etc. Maybe SIL's PIL don't like her that much either. There is definitely something going on, but if she expects any support, she shouldn't alienate those who could be supportive by being so obnoxious.

ThumbWitchesAbroad true, true. Perhaps it's a cultural thing too as I do remember her saying that when she fell pregnant with baby 1 aftr lots of attempts, she said if he wanted the baby, he would have to help out, not like the other men in that country who kinda say its a womans job.

girlywhirly She does seem to speak to everyobne like crap - her parents too. But they just seem to take it. Perhaps its the way she's always spoken to them. I wasn't brought up like that so who knows.

I did post a reply to her having found a scorpion in the house and received no nasty comments but replies back which were normal.

I don't think OP is unreasonable at all, she hasn't tried to show her self as perfect and I didn't think she was hosting about dc.

Agree with PP, state you are having christmas at home this year but that you'd love them to visit (sil can go to hotel as 'no room at the inn' ), and watch them fall about trying to find good excuse. Result, you get christmas at home alone.

Why does ds call your mum Grandma? You must have known that his cousins called MIL Grandma. You could have called your mum anything but no, you chose Grandma. And yet, somehow it's somebody else's fault that he has to call MIL something different from what the others do.

That's not evidence of MIL pushing him out, it's evidence of you deliberately enforcing difference and then complaining.

Every example you post just reads as unnecessarily dramatic.

You have been horrible and smug about her children and her parenting.

I think you're trying to drive a wedge between your dh and his family because they don't treat you and your son likes gods.

You're moaning about a joke SIL made about champagne for her birthday at your wedding.

There are 365 days in the year. Why did you choose to get married the day before her birthday??

It doesn't sound like your SIL has a very happy marriage, and her parents obviously feel that she needs a lot of emotional support.
She is probably eyeing your domestic set up with some envy - perhaps especially the part about you being so close to your parents. Maybe she would love her DC to see her own parents every day, for her DH to be a hands on Dad. Perhaps she feels that just for three weeks she could have with her parents what you have with yours all year round.

If she changed to abruptly after having a child - would you not wonder if she had PND? Having a baby away from your family can be hard work, especially if her husband's culture expects women to do it all.

Rather than looking for insult everywhere, why not think about her situation and try and summon up some genuine compassion?

I don't want to be a MN cliche, and i'm probably projecting a bit (not that i behave like SIL, but because i have lived abroad with badly behaved children and marriage problems and it is a very lonely place)...but, i feel quite sorry for SIL. Yes she says rude things to you, but it sounds like she is miserable, and not in a good place, i mean, happy people don't snipe like that and cause arguments over nothing on FB with strangers. If she'd always been like this then i would say just cut your losses, but as this isn't the case and you were on friendly terms previously, do you think there is any good feeling left between you where you could say to her 'look SIL i'm sick of all this sniping, what really is going on with you? Is something wrong? are you happy?'. It could be worth a shot. I know it isn't up to you to do this, but it may be nice for family relations if you could get to some level of resolution.

Also i think if i were you i would try to separate out the issues between Sil and you and PILS and you, rather than balling them all up together.

I am with waltermitty on this one. It seems like you are trying to take offence at everything.

I think MrsKoala offers wise advice.

SIL sounds unhappy. She may be annoyed if your FB posts paint a picture of a happy life, because she isn't happy. She may have had bad post-natal depression, for all you know - you said the problems began around the time she had her first. This could also explain why she doesn't, to your mind, seem to have a grip on their behaviour.

Above all, if you have issues with SIL, don't let that destroy your relationship with your MIL and FIL. It could only end badly for your DH and your DS if you didn't try to build bridges there, given they sound fundamentally nice people.

It is hard. In-laws are really hard, I think most of the time, and from all sides. It's such a highly charged and emotional relationship, and yet they are effectively strangers, and not ones of our choosing. There's not the shared history and genetic imperative working in our favour. Nothing but (hopefully) shared love for the DH (or DW, or DS/DD) and shared genetic relatives. It's very easy to find all they say and all they do grating. Dialling down on the exposure will probably be the best solution, if reaching out isn't something you are comfortable with.

Op, I want to offer you a different perspective. My dh isn't British and I used to live in his country, which could be very stressful. I found it particularly hard when the dcs were small because I didn't have any family support and the lifestyle there wasn't child friendly. I used to breathe a sigh of relief when I went home for a holiday. However my 'd'b and his wife would always come and spend a week at the same time. After a couple of days I would get pissed off because the house was squashed and my dps would get worn out. I'd inevitably end up cooking for everyone. It spoiled the trip and I started to resent it because they could go visit my dps any time whereas I could only go once a year. I think I possibly could have been a bit of a cow at some points during the visit!

That makes a lot of sense, Lauren - were your DB and his wife ever shipped out to a hotel though?

MrsKoala I do wonder if there's something wrong but take the reply and coldness when my Dh asked was BIL with her - she was very abrupt and rude towards him, not just me. So unfortunately, it's not a situation I would feel comfy asking her if she's ok. She seems to perhaps use her snappyness/abruptness as protection.

Lauren I do take your point. Yes, we could go and see PILs more. But actually they see SIL approx 5/6 times a year and usually us 2/3 times at most. I probably sound horrid saying this but she may well feel alone/isolated over there but she chose to live there and marry someone over there knowing she would stay there. If she feels lonely, the last thing she should be doing is isolating those who ARE there for her. And she never lifts a finger when she's there. She is wiated on hand a foot by PIL and they buy everything she needs/wants throughout the stay and whilst she is at home even, sending/taking things out to her throughout the year.

sleeponeday Yep. I like my ILs. I do deep down like SIL and I know she cares but by god does she have a funny way of showing it.

and jux Because thats the name she wanted to be called.

cjt you and your mother have created that name conflict then, not your MIL. For you not to realise and accept it, and to then use it as another reason to get cross with your MIL is both naive and mean.

And yes you do sound horrid saying that your SIL chose her life. Yes she did, but i'm sure those choices were made in hope - she would have had no idea how things would turn out, as many of us don't.

You are coming across very badly here, totally lacking in empathy and rather manipulative.

My kids call DM, MIL and great grannies Nan .. they arent confused .. sounds mean to make one child call her something else.
OP finds SIL a problem, thats not mean, MiL is showing favouritism to one, and expects others to fall in line. OP knows her issue is not being assertive enough and asking advice.

I think that if SIL is waited on hand and foot, and allowed by PIL to be so rude to them, they may well know what is wrong and have been sworn not to say anything to anybody else in the family. I imagine it preys on their minds a lot if so, and going to see her lots and taking her things, and having her stay with them are the only ways they can help her.

I think you just concentrate on your relationships with PIL and BIL and family. But seeing SIL at Christmas is probably best avoided because if there is any kind of relationship difficulty it will be magnified enormously.

Oh FFS, there is no name conflict! Loads of people manage perfectly successfully to call both grandparents by the same moniker, with definers as to which one, whether it be first name, initial, or surname!

OP knows her issue is not being assertive enough and asking advice

I'm guessing the inlaws would say she has an entirely different set of issues!