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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my 5yr old and her friend shouldn't be able to wander out of the class room and go wandering for 10 mins without her teacher noticing ?

253 replies

ilooklikemrsploppy · 17/09/2015 17:34

Background : I've took a bit of an instant dislike to DD's teacher but am trying my best not to be the psycho, over protective mother that teachers must come up against all the time. I find her very abrupt and stern for a P1 teacher. On the few occassions I've spoke with her she has also insisted on speaking to me as though I'm also 5 despite being 41. She's early 20's. I know DD can be a handful and is a mischevious wee minx given the opportunity.

Today DD met me at the school gates in floods of tears as her face had been moved down from the green zone (all is good in the world) into the red zone (you lose half your golden time on a Friday afternoon). She mumbled something about going to the toilet with her friend but I couldn't make sense of what she was saying. So I approached the teacher with DD hanging off one arm in floods of tears and DS hanging off the arm moaning about wanting to go home. I asked why her face had been moved and her teacher told me that DD and her friend had decided to leave the class room without asking and went for a wander. Her teacher said that she got a fright and was looking for them before they eventually appeared about 10 mins later. They'd gone to the loo. She said that it was obviously unacceptable for them to do this and she had to know where the pupils were at all times. In between two screaming/crying kids I couldn't think of everything I should have said but when I was driving I thought "how the fuck did they actually get out the class room without her noticing ?" I've been quizzing DS and he says sometimes the class room doors are open, sometimes closed depending on what the teacher is teaching at the time. DD was naughty but AIBU to think that two 5 yr olds shouldn't be able to sneak out a classroom. There was never any chance of them getting out of the building as there is a main door which is a security type door and the janitor sits there.

OP posts:
YouTheCat · 17/09/2015 22:15

I agree, Looks. And at 5, the punishment should be at the time of the bad behaviour, not days later.

ilooklikemrsploppy · 17/09/2015 22:18

PaulAnka- I'm not fussed Grin I was being unreasonable to expect the teacher to notice when she has 21 other kids to look after. I think the worst case scenarios were running through my head, hence the knee jerk reaction. Bottom line, Dd has to learn to listen. However I refuse to have my parenting skills questioned or my kids depicted as spoilt brats. We just had one of those days, I'm sure we've all had them though reading some posts there seems to be a lot of perfect parents and perfect kids out there.

OP posts:
LooksLikeImStuckHere · 17/09/2015 22:23

Children test the boundaries for around the first three weeks, usually.

She tested the boundaries, found out what they were and probably won't do it again! I don't think it's any reflection on your parenting skills, it's just 5 year olds doing what they do.

ilooklikemrsploppy · 17/09/2015 22:24

Looks- that's a good point actually. I hadn't even thought of it that way.

OP posts:
ilooklikemrsploppy · 17/09/2015 22:26

^^that referring to your points about the wall of shame

OP posts:
spoonfulofgoodness · 17/09/2015 22:38

YABU and you should have some respect for the teacher. Your dad has pushed the boundaries and has been caught and punished appropriately. A teacher cannot guard the door at all times. Hopefully your dad has learned her lesson

spoonfulofgoodness · 17/09/2015 22:38

*dd lol

coffeeisnectar · 17/09/2015 22:41

Has your dd said sorry to the teacher? If not then perhaps she could do so in the morning and say she won't do it again.

She might earn some time back, she might not. But it's a lesson learned.

I used to volunteer in a P1 class three mornings a week and even with two pairs of eyes watching, kids can still get into all sorts of trouble. Kids asking to go to the toilet, not back after 10 minutes so I'd be despatched to get them only to find water everywhere, water fight going on or on one occasion finding a girl happily singing in front of the mirror.

Most of the kids were really good though and I loved being in the classroom amongst the noise and mess. It was lovely seeing them develop and learn over the year.

Bakeoffcake · 17/09/2015 22:55

I was going to suggest an apology too Coffee

Would your DD have time to do the teacher a little picture/card in the morning OP?

mathanxiety · 17/09/2015 23:03

There can of course be lots of reasons for crying, all coexisting, and because a child can firmly believe he or she is completely in the right there is no machiavelian scheming, or cunning, involved. But when punished in school, crying for a long stretch afterwards as described by the OP would count in my books as an effort to convince a parent that an injustice had been done, perhaps along with all the other reasons for crying. A parent shouldn't conclude from the crying that a teacher had been unfair or mean or cold towards the child. They shouldn't conclude that their child was trying it on purposefully either, but they should be aware that the child has an egocentric pov here (completely natural and appropriate) and try to show her (as has been done) how others see what has happened.

Fwiw, the discipline method described was never used in my DCs' school until they would have been a year older than Reception or P1 age. Even then there was an intermediate stage between green and red and children had a chance to redeem themselves in the course of the day because quite a lot of infractions had to be accumulated before anyone was moved from yellow to red, and you could move back up too. When they were 4-5 the door was kept shut, and other methods of maintaining order were used.

I don't think that particular method is appropriate for most 4-5 yos. It is too much of a blow to the (healthy and normal) ego of 4-5 yos to see their image or name physically moved to a bad category. Children need to believe the best of themselves at this age and this is done by encouragement of good behaviour along with appropriate verbal reprimands. Conversely, self-identification as occupants of a bad zone can become a self fulfilling prophecy.

They did not use Golden Time in my DCs' school either.
I am not sure loss of golden time at a future date is appropriate either, for 4 yos. A more immediate consequence is better. But I have a lot of reservations about Golden Time anyway.

Being left out of it is a way of shaming a child, which is never good. It also sends a message to the child that staying part of the herd is a good thing. Then when bullying or social exclusion becomes a problem later in school life children are asked not to participate, despite the fact that certain children left out of Golden Time have been visibly not taking part in the pleasant activities and this visible non participation is part of how the lesson Golden Time teaches is intended to work. A reprimand otoh does not physically separate anyone from the group and it should not shame if handled right. (It should correct and teach).

Plus Golden time in general sends mixed messages about work. It is like saying to children 'If you eat all your (disgusting) vegetables, you can have some (delicious) ice cream.' The ultimate end of a teacher is to convince children that engaging in their interesting and challenging work is a joyful experience.

MissDuke · 17/09/2015 23:06

Op I understand why you were concerned, but children do wander off. I bet she has wandered off from you too before, when you only had her to keep an eye on?

I think it would be very hard for a teacher to spot quickly, if they were off their seats doing an activity. Obviously if they were in their seats you would expect it to be noticed quickly. Teachers cannot keep their eyes on the children at all times, they would turn their back to use the whiteboard etc, wouldn't they. Hopefully you will warm to the teacher as the year progresses.

I wouldn't be punishing her at home though (no 50 lashes Grin, as she has been punished already. I don't think it was the crime of the century!

mathanxiety · 17/09/2015 23:06

x posted with LooksLikeImStuckHere

MissDuke · 17/09/2015 23:07

Meant to add - it is more what they were doing for 10 mins that I would be concerned with Grin Some boys did this in dd's class and were found peeing up the wall in the toilets Shock

MissDuke · 17/09/2015 23:09

mathanxiety good points there!

HoursTurnIntoDays · 17/09/2015 23:10

Definitely not the teachers fault.

The children should know at age 5 that it is not acceptable to leave the classroom.

The teacher cannot be expected to watch the door 100% of the time to prevent any escapes.

And when there is that many children how would anyone quickly spot and one or two were missing for a bit. I wouldn't!

At least your daughter will learn from losing half the golden time to maybe not do it again.

LooksLikeImStuckHere · 17/09/2015 23:11

I agree math. You put that much more eloquently than me Grin

mathanxiety · 17/09/2015 23:13

A lot more ling winded too Blush

NewMrsX · 17/09/2015 23:16

I agree with the posts about the wall of shame and punishing children days later etc, but what immediate alternatives are there that won't interrupt the lesson further?

Op I do think ywbu but you've been given quite a hard time here

00100001 · 17/09/2015 23:18

haven;t read the fill thread (OP being too reasonable! Grin

however, I just came on ere eto say clearly Aplaceonthecouch has never worked with any group of 5 year old children....!

LooksLikeImStuckHere · 17/09/2015 23:21

At that age, usually a strong, stern word is enough.

If it was a first offence, I'd probably explain to the children why I'd been so worried and why it wasn't the right thing to do. They are only 5.

I would say that if they did it again that they may have to stand with me for a minute at playtime or talk to the head if I'd had other issues with them in class and I didn't think that would be sufficient.

It all depends on the child in question.

ilooklikemrsploppy · 17/09/2015 23:41

Mathan- I'm warming to you now ! Dd wasn't crying for a long stretch. She burst into tears as soon as she clocked me at the school gates and I'd asked her how her day was. I spoke to her briefly at the school and in the car about why her teacher (and I) were rightly angry with her but saved the full lecture until we got home. Speaking to Dd tonight she said that she didn't like school because she can't "do cuddles". She's an extremely tactile and a very affectionate child and I think that she's finding the move to school a bigger adjustment than I had ever thought it would be. I've seen her in the classroom trying to cuddle her teacher (she understandably moved away slightly) and Dd looked a bit rejected. I've explained that her teacher can't give everyone in the class cuddles and she should save them for me and her dad.

OP posts:
RooftopCat · 17/09/2015 23:41

What I find odd is in nursery the staff:child ratio for 4 year olds is something like 1:8 or 1:10. But once they turn 5 and are at school a teacher expected to have 25 of them!

Snossidge · 17/09/2015 23:50

It's 1:13 in a nursery with a teacher. 1:30 in a Reception class.

TheNewStatesman · 18/09/2015 03:55

Golden time seems like a pretty rotten idea to me. Surely there is plenty of opportunity for play within Reception anyway, without having GT? And better to punish right away, not drag the whole thing out for days.

LindyHemming · 18/09/2015 07:05

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