to think Corbyn is dead in the water

[oldshilling]

Yes he's a nice chap with a nice beard, but silliness (principled though it might be) like refusing to sing the national anthem is not going to endear him to more than a small minority of the population.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34263447

And the signs are that he intends to be the gift that keeps on giving, in terms of pointless gestures that don't really achieve anything but make him a mega-target for the right-wing press.

Either he gets turfed out before the next GE, or he surpasses Michael Foot as the biggest loser in Labour's history.

Plenty of those who served and were honoured and remembered yesterday were / are republicans with pacifist sensibilities. It seems pretty disrespectful if their views are not represented within the context of the commemoration. I have no issue with standing respectfully rather than singing the "National Anthem".

The cuts to tax credits were passed yesterday but David Davis and a fair number of fellow conservatives seem to be negotiating concessions to mitigate the short term effects on the poorest. If JC galvanises this response and brings the conservatives away from their lurch to the right this is a good thing.

David Davis is also critical of the changes to Union laws.

Michael Portillo said on This Week that he does not accept the rationale for maintaining Trident.

JC may have enemies in his own party but I think there are a fair few genuine sympathisers among the conservatives on at least some issues.

Not watched PMQs yet but it sounds like JC is attempting to move to reasoned debate away from soundbite press fodder and if he can do this that is also an end in itself.

In the job a couple of days and clear signs of progress. He is doing OK as far as I'm concerned.

A lot of sneering snobbery in evidence here from the raging Tories.
Again I ask you...do we live in a dictatorship?

I think you're missing the point a bit Hellocampers. JC could've stood up on the alter and declared his unwavering devotion to 'the Queen', and the media would still have found something to criticise him about.

It's his economic and foreign policies they don't like, not his presentation or his manners.

hello did you sleep through the whole bloody election campaign? He faced HUNDREDS of questions!

I'm starting to suspect you are actually Harriet. No one likes Harriet or her patronising pink fucking bus.

And your whole "Prime Minister must believe in God and support the monarchy" is BS in my eyes. What if we had the perfect candidate but he/ she was a Buddist? Religion should play to part in the state. I think you'll find the opposite view is quickly becoming very outdated.

Parliament needs to get into this century yesterday. Perhaps if we did that we'd see less of the boys club and more of a progressive, modern govournment which relects the actual population.

Please tell me your reasoning behind "PM must be able to sing god save the queen?"

Yes please do tell us why the Prime Minister must sing God Save the Queen.

I will give you the pink bus idea which was indeed bollocks.

However she has been in parliament since she breast fed her child in the chamber. Yes she got that wrong but overall she's a good operator.

My reasoning that he should have sung the anthem is fucking obvious really isn't it? Seriously you think the electorate would vote for a PM who sang the red flag and not the national anthem? What bubble do you live in?

Tony didn't believe in a God and said so. That's different. but he sang the nationsl anthem. But then he knew how to win elections didn't he?

pictish rabbit Tories? Personally I have been a member if the Labour Party since I was 18 in 1982!

He faced questions yes but not a one to one actual grilling and drilling down on economic policies or any other policies did he? However he will.

I wish I bloody was Harriet. Nice seat in the lords and a fat pension. I am probably going up have to work until 70 at this rate as self employed and low paid. Hey ho.

But who is making a petty point? Corbyn or the media?

"He supports homeopathy"

So does Jeremy Hunt.

Wierd, isn't it? Atheists and Republicans aren't allowed to have principles. "oh just pretend- where's the harm?" Almost as if Christians and monarchists canny believe that people actually, genuinely don't agree with them!

howabout I agree that there is good reason to suspect that recent events will embolden some Tory backbenchers, especially those with small majorities which may be eroded when the tax credit changes come in, and the Eurosceptics.

It's certainly going to make the EU referendum a more interesting spectacle.

On the subject of the National Anthem, I believe it was Michael Rosen who pointed out the delicious irony of papers belong to a media empire that bugged the Royal mobile phones moaning about a bloke not singing along.

I am never, ever going to vote for Corbyn, but I must say I respect the fact he stands by his principles (grammar schools, monarchy). They're principles I disagree with but I respect him for standing by them rather than jettisoning them for political expediency.

I much prefer that to Blair smarming up to the Queen but being a Republican in private or pretending to be an Anglican when he's a Catholic.

I had to swear allegiance to the Queen to get my British passport.
I had my fingers crossed behind my back.

"I do think there is a belief on mumsnet that the general public are all stupid and manipulated by the Tory press. I think that's bollocks actually"

That'll be me.

We have the most partisan press we've ever had. Our papers are full of propaganda. Propaganda works - as evidenced by Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin etc.

How else do you explain manual workers and people on low wages (who make up a huge chunk of the Sun readership) continuing to buy a paper which overtly supports a party which has impoverished large numbers of them?

Millions of people buy the Sun and the Mail. People buy it because they don't find that mendacious shit offensive. What better proof do you need that a large chunk of the UK electorate are ignorant?

Or the TUC voting to leave the EU "to protect workers rights" when we have a Tory Government of the Rich for the Rich.
How thick ARE those people.

At least he didn't sit there with a sour face picking his nails like the actual queen he's supposed to pretend he wants a god he doesn't believe in to save did at the Olympics opening ceremony! The respect he showed her was much greater than she showed at that event!

Seriously you think the electorate would vote for a PM who sang the red flag and not the national anthem? What bubble do you live in?

Maybe they won't vote for him, but they won't vote for a leader who is just trying to offer Tory light either.

It is relevant to call JC's electability into question when his competition is an electable candidate.

I think its sad that with such an approval labour aren't getting behind JC, he's not an island, they could try and work on moderating some of his policies. There has been lots of toy throwing considering the large chunk of votes received which is to the detriment of the party.

Party needs to normalise itself for next year I think when the tax credits kick in and people start rioting.

Why on earth should he be expected to sing God Save the fecking Queen when he doesn't believe in either? This is not a dictatorship ffs.

This is all very reminiscent of the compulsory worship in schools threads. 'Go on, just have a little bit of Jesus, is it really so hard?'.

I thought that too, Ohfuck.

A little bit won't hurt. And anyway deep down you are Christian, really. Everyone is............

Yes...oh go on Jeremy...just pretend you believe in God and support the monarchy...just for a minute...just for appearances.

How utterly childish that anyone needs this in order to give the man and his policies credence. How pathetic and thoroughly stupid.

P.s Not referring to anyone here btw - more the outrage the Tory media have created over this absolute nothing of an event.