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AIBU?

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Original poster

Restaurant Argument

260 replies

Lauren1983 · 12/09/2015 22:33

Me, DP and and our 2 and a half year old went out for dinner tonight. We ended up getting to the restaurant at 8 slightly later than planned. It's a chain restaurant but a slightly upmarket one. We go there once a month with DD and always have a lovely time.

When we were waiting for our bill I nipped to the toilet during which a woman on the next table said excuse me to DP and asked if he could ''shut that child up'' and that DD ''wasn't normal''.

Up until a few minutes before I went to the toilet DD had been quiet - colouring and eating. DP made the mistake of saying dinosaur to DD which did result in her being noisy. I had attempted to calm her down but at that point we were waiting to pay so were leaving soon anyway. She was noisy (going rah!)for around 5 mins at most.

Things ended up getting quite heated as DP was fuming at the woman's comments. Two men on her table also joined in. The remaining member of their party (a woman) stayed silent. I told DP to take DD to the car as I paid the bill and finished my drink.

As I left I said in future it would be best if they kept comments to themselves. The main woman then said DD shouldn't have been out at the time and should know to behave, that her children were never like that etc. She even said ''bye girl'' to me to get me to leave (I must look younger than 31!) The main man make a sarcastic comment about the top I was wearing (a kimono that I think is nice but that's beside the point) and was spoiling for a fight. They complained about having to pay the full cost of their meal after we had ruined it.

I don't think they had the right to speak to us like that but was IBU to be at a restaurant at that time?

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 13/09/2015 11:54

And as Lunch said, you expect adult noise in the evenings (though excessive noise is inconsiderate) but many people don't expect child noise especially when some adults will have paid baby sitters to get away from the noise of their own children.

Rdoo · 13/09/2015 12:01

Aridane Clearly parenting styles are different.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 13/09/2015 12:03

can anyone explain what the difference between "child" noise and "adult" noise is, please?

If you're disturbed by a noisy child, surely, you'd be equally disturbed by a noisy adult party? No?

Rdoo · 13/09/2015 12:04

If you're disturbed by a noisy child, surely, you'd be equally disturbed by a noisy adult party? No?
Yes, I'm equally annoyed by selfish adults disturbing others and selfish parents doing nothing when their child is disturbing others. What's your point?

ilovesooty · 13/09/2015 12:05

South I've already said that.

ilovesooty · 13/09/2015 12:08

But since this thread situation focuses on response to child noise adult noise isn't relevant.
The poor behaviour of adults (which I concede exists)is hardly some kind of justification for parents allowing toddlers to roar in restaurants in the evening.

luciferswench · 13/09/2015 12:09

Restaurants are generally noisy places be it children or adults, you dont want a noisy meal stay home.
I failed to find a law that says children must not eat in restaurants beyond 8pm. I dont get why children with no following day commitments must not leave the house after 6pm.
Of course no one wants tantruming kids sat nearby but equally so no one wants twatty loud adults nearby.

Original poster
Lauren1983 · 13/09/2015 12:12

mum11970 Sun 13-Sep-15 10:32:21
Op, you said you were going to suggest your dp took your dd outside as she was being noisier than you would have liked, before you went to the toilet and asked for the bill but you also said she only started going rah whilst you were in the toilet. How long was she being noisy for? 5 minutes of rah after her already being noisy. Whilst the other diners were very rude, it does sound like the noise had been going on for more than 5 minutes.

She started making the rah noise after we had eaten, collected up our stuff and were waiting to pay. When she first started (said it maybe twice)I asked her to be quiet. She said rah again so I showed her photos of herself on my phone which distracted her and she stopped. I then left to go to the toilet and when I came out I could hear her 'rah-ing' again. DP said he had tried to quieten her so it seems she started again as soon as I had gone. I was in the toilet maybe 2/3 mins so the rah-ing happened over about a 5 minute period but wasn't a constant noise. As I could hear her as I came back from the toilet it was then I was going to tell DP to take her out but when I got to the table I saw an argument had started.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 13/09/2015 12:12

There's a difference between a vibrant restaurant ambience and the deliberate encouragement of unnecessary loud noise.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 13/09/2015 12:15

If you are the kind of person who is disturbed by noise in restaurants, then you should choose your restaurant with care, rather than expect everyone, adult or child, who enjoy making noise during their meals to comply with your expectations.

You have choice. Eat somewhere else or stay at home. If you chose an adult-only restaurant, or one which promoted couples dining, and were disturbed by children, or a hen party, then you'd have a valid complaint.

Griping that the diners at the table next to you don't share your values is unreasonable. As I asked upthread, what makes restaurants different? What about theme parks, zoos, stately homes? Should DCs be seen and not heard there, too?

Ohwhatfuckeryisthis · 13/09/2015 12:18

"Brat" ???
She's 2 for gods' sake. Not running round kicking peoples' chairs, tripping up waiters, pinching breadsticks. (Seen all that) sitting shouting "rah" for 5 mins. Then they left.

IguanaTail · 13/09/2015 12:22

Aridane when I've seen this abroad, it seems that continental parents expect to be able to chat to each other and let the kids sit and chat amongst themselves. The one time in Spain I saw an (about) 7 year old shouting and screaming, the mum pulled him out his chair, marched him across the road to a quieter location, told him off, delivered a couple of smacks on the bottom and then marched him back. And that was the end of it. 5 mins later he was chattering away with family/friends. There were definitely no colouring pencils and iPads being handed round to entertain them. And there was very limited chat between the adults and children. The adults were focused on each other. The children would interrupt occasionally to join in and that was that. One had a baby who fell asleep in her buggy. The meal went on for about 2 hours and (the 7 year old incident aside) was calm and positive and it appeared everyone had a nice time. It didn't look a special occasion either. Just a regular big family meal.

Very different to what you experience in the UK a lot of times.

Rdoo · 13/09/2015 12:25

If you are the kind of person who is disturbed by noise in restaurants, then you should choose your restaurant with care, rather than expect everyone, adult or child, who enjoy making noise during their meals to comply with your expectations.
Oh so anyone can make whatever noise they like in a restaurant and if someone is disturbed that's their problem? Does this principle of yours apply to other things in life?
You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between normal noise expected in restaurants and someone (adult or child) causing a disruption.

Original poster
Lauren1983 · 13/09/2015 12:25

To reply to other points -

DD had had a nap that afternoon so wasn't tired.

We left the restaurant just before 9.

As I said before we normally go out earlier but as DD is normally well behaved and this is a restaurant we regularly visit I didn't envisage any issues. I try my hardest to try to minimise DD causing any problems to other people in general.

I didn't apologise to them as they had started rudely with us. If someone calls my DD not normal I'm not going to feel like apologising. I do wish that I had apologised to other diners though for the scene that was caused.

OP posts:
Rdoo · 13/09/2015 12:27

Oh you've done it now Iguanatail, that's basically child abuse on mumsnet and posters would be calling 101 for advice.

ilovesooty · 13/09/2015 12:34

Rdoo that's my point. A vibrant ambience is to be expected.
I don't see why I should expect to accommodate deliberate and really intrusive noise.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 13/09/2015 12:34

Rdoo but that's entirely subjective, isn't it?

Personally, I don't think a few minutes of fun dino noises is disruptive - in a family friendly restaurant, at 8pm, that is "normal noise", IMO. Others disagree. who is right? You, or me?

The noise associated with a child, stripper, a hen party, or a group of students, is "normal noise" in some restaurants, to some people, and not in other places, or to other people.

shoesSHOES · 13/09/2015 12:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ilovesooty · 13/09/2015 12:46

Anyway it's evident from the OP that both she and her partner did attempt to moderate the noise so she isn't claiming it was normally expected restaurant noise.
And I think just about everyone agrees that the other party's behaviour was appalling.

IguanaTail · 13/09/2015 12:48

Rdoo !!!

tomatodizzymum · 13/09/2015 12:50

People who are hostile towards children are often the same ones who complain that society is breaking down and the younger generation are growing up to be more selfish, rude and with less compassion and more hostility towards others.......you don't say, I wonder why? Hmm

I don't live in the UK, people where I live frequently go out to eat with young children. Restaurants are not churches, people of all ages are expected to chat and make happy noises. If a child is upset, it is quite common for others to see if they can stop the child with distracting activities, the children are also more respectful and considerate of others.

Use these opportunities as a way to teach your daughter that not everyone is happy, some are very bitter and miserable. They attack and bully others because that's how they view the world. It's usually them not you.

Flumplet · 13/09/2015 12:53

Although I can understand both sides of the story, I think it was them rather than you bu. They could have asked to be re-seated in a quieter area if it was so important to them I think. Some people are just plain nasty and there's no excuse for that. I'm sorry your night out was spoilt op!

Oliversmumsarmy · 13/09/2015 13:02

Ask is a family restaurant and not a great one at that. I live near London and have been taking my dc out to restaurants at all times of day and night since they were babies. (Can't believe those that think 8pm is late). We also take them to pubs regularly. I am with those that if you go to Ask or PE or any chain restaurant then you can't expect there will be no children after a certain time. To create an argument over 5 mins of Rahs when you can see a table is leaving is just pissy.

Rdoo · 13/09/2015 13:03

ilovesooty, I agree.

SAC - neither of us where there to know how disruptive the "dino noises" were.

Original poster
Lauren1983 · 13/09/2015 13:08

I don't think it was worth them being reseated as by the time they would have moved their plates, glasses etc we would have been paying and leaving.

They were there before us, I daresay if they had arrived after us they would have chosen not to sit next to us.

They were already eating when we arrived and were still eating when we left so they were there from probably 7.30ish onwards. So 85 mins of their meal from 7.30-9 was not disturbed (plus the time they were there after we went).

I'm not sure what they were hoping to achieve (apart from money off maybe) as we were already getting ready to leave. If DD had started making the noise before we ordered we would have left, if it had been after I would have asked for takeaway boxes, paid and left.

OP posts: