to think some people really don't get look after the pennies...

[XCChamps]

and the pounds look after themselves. And that it really is true.

I have a colleague who's son is living in US. She's never been to visit him because she "can't afford to". Yet she comes into the office every day with a takeaway latte and buys a sandwich for lunch and something from Cook for her and her DH's dinner almost everyday. So as not to drip feed, she finishes work at 3pm, so it's not like she's finishing a long day with no time to cook.

Obviously it's her choice and if she'd rather buy those things than visit her son, that's up to her but she doesn't seem to understand how much she's spending and that before long it would add up to enough for that plane ticket.

I see/hear it loads. People spending regularly on unnecessary bits and pieces that they don't even really enjoy and then complaining loudly and frequently about how broke they are.

Does no-one know about looking after the pennies....?

Well, obviously, Calm - but I did anyway, despite having insurance & investments up to my ears. As I've said above, I'm glad I didn't prioritise saving too heavily over spending. It would only have delayed what happened anyway, and I'd have had less fun.

Oh don't get me wrong, I have some money put aside for a rainy day and plan for the future to some extent, I just refuse to give up all the small pleasures in life for the sake of having a lot of money in the bank.

Yy to balance. A colleague died this week - he was 65 and had worked like crazy for the last few years, racking up the overtime, because he was on a final salary pension calculated on the actual amount he had earned in his final 3 years. He doubled his salary every month in overtime. He was taken ill 4 months ago and died a week after his official retirement date. His widow will get a pension based on his salary, not all the overtime, so it was utterly pointless in the end (although I expect he saved a lot). Everyone at work is going around thinking seriously about work/life balance now and quitting.

I am definitely a spender, but I want to change this - on a slight tangent (maybe I should start another thread) but how do you change that mindset? How do I begin to make changes?

If anyone has any insights or links I would be very grateful

I am an English teacher so I can take a stab at the tenses thing - English doesn't actually have a future tense. We either use the present continuous (I am eating) combined with a time word or phrase (I'm eating at John's tomorrow) - this is when we're talking about plans rather than anything actually concrete. It feels transient, because using the present continuous in the present is very transient. I'm eating (now, but I won't be in five minutes). It's not the tense we use for permanent things such as "I don't eat meat". In fact although it's correct to use present continuous for current states which will at some point come to an end, there are several words that we never use in present continuous such as "love". We don't say "I'm loving him", we say "I love him". If we consider a house move to be temporary, we say "I'm living in London at the moment" but if a place feels like home, we say "I live in London".

The second way we express the future is to tack "going to" in front of whatever it is. "I'm going to visit my grandparents next week". This is more concrete but because it uses the word going it also has this sense of a journey, of time passing.

Then the last way that we express the future is to use the word "will" in some sense, whether it's alone (I will be there) or in conjunction with an adverb expressing the probability. (It will probably rain, I'll definitely get one of those, it's unlikely he'll make it.)

In fact we hardly ever use "I will..." alone. We use it typically when making spur of the moment decisions "I'll help you!" or to emphasise if somebody implies that you won't/can't do something, you might reply with "I will do it!"

If you look into the etymology of the word will, it does mean to choose/make a decision, but there's also a much stronger bias towards the meaning of wishing, desiring, hoping. It's similar to the verb use, "willing something to be true". (While checking I was right on this I also came across "shall" which of course can be used in place of "will" to express a future course of action, but it's old fashioned these days and rarely used. The meaning of shall is more couched in obligation.)

Then there's the if/when distinction. We use if for situations where we don't know the outcome and when for situations where we expect something to happen. Other languages don't necessarily have this and tend to use when for both. So it seems that we hedge our bets quite a lot with the word "if" (it's one I was told specifically never to use when addressing students with a low or intermediate level of English, because they often find it confusing).

It is a balance. Dh is a saver, to the extreme. A "tight wad" if you will. I've become very good at waiting for things, and going without. But I often think about us dying young, having not really lived to the full. I've saved a lot of money by having zero interest in booze, fags, sport, clothes, shoes, bags, gadgets, cars and concerts. I would like to travel more though, and go on holiday.

twirlypoo - MoneySavingExpert is really a not bad place to start! :)

Twirly - If your employer supports payroll saving, it's by far the easiest as you never see the money. Second best is a direct debit to a fixed-term savings account with withdrawal penalties. Third best, imo, is saving cash in a transparent container so you can see it growing.

I'm not really a saver, unless there is something specific I want. I don't put away for 'rainy days' or holiday funds, but if I decide I need a laptop, I save for the specific laptop I've chosen.

I'd rather spend my money on things that make my day to day life pleasant, rather than go without to save. In my family barely any have reached the point where they can retire and enjoy their savings. My auntie died at forty-odd, my uncle at fifty-odd, my step-dad just before he reached sixty, my granddad at sixty four. Only my granny lived to a decent seventy two.

If I decided I wanted something, I would definitely be able to save for it, but if there's nothing that I presently want, the money gets spent. I do keep a small cushion of money for bills and emergencies though.

I have actually been thinking of starting a business along these lines. I have an awesome spreadsheet which allows me minute by minute control of my finances. I can't understand how people spend a little here, a little there, and don't think it adds up! I worked as a debt adviser at the CAB for 7 years so know a LOT about advising people on very low incomes about their money, but the biggest problem I have found is people on 50K to 250K who think they have more money than they do, and don't budget!!! Then they get surprised by this bill and that bill??. It seems the higher the income, the more they waste and then moan they can't afford this or that.

I luuurrrvvvveee my spreadsheet so am really hoping I can get a few clients and then educate them and they will "spend their money smarter.."

twirlypoo - maybe i could practice on you! you don't live in Surrey do you?

Money saving expert site has SO much information I never know where to behin with it! I will take a look again though, armed with pen and paper to write down the bits I need to implement (it's going to be a huge list!)

Garrick that's half the problem, I'm self employed so my income is very much in drips and drabs - the most I ever have coming in in 1 transaction is £250, and the smallest is £13. Makes it so hard to budget! I think the glass jar approach would work though. I like a good visual aid!

Thank you

Summer I am other end of the country but if you ever want a test subject (and won't get totally frustrated by me!) then def feel free to get in touch. I need someone like you in my life!

There is a great calculator on money saving expert that adds up how much you could save if you gave up X treat. I find it a great motivator.

what a shame twirlypoo. Will PM you anyway with my spreadsheet - my friends love it! It simplifies money supermarket. (now have to learn how to attach to a mumsnet email!)

YANBU. I've managed to save £2000 in two years by saving £5 - £20's here and there. But then my treats are usually only a £3 nail polish or hair product irregularly , not cinema and dinner out every week.

I used to be an instant gratifeir (is that a word?), then I opened an isa. It's on my phone with my banking app and every week a standing order of £20 gets put in there and at the end of the month I put whatever is left in before I get my next wages.

I have bought a few big things with my savings like a car, a very nice smart TV and redecorated my bedroom. It comes in very handy for dc birthdays ect.

But it has completely changed the way I look at money! I now subconsciously choose to spend less and save more. It gives a a buzz to check my savings. The trick is I think is to be able to save and get delayed gratification instead of just saving.

I've changed in the wrong direction, and would really like to go back. 10 years ago, I lived in London on £1k a month, of which half went on rent. I ate well, went out on a Saturday night, and never felt skint. I hardly ever bought clothes and wouldn't even have thought of buying coffee or lunch out. Now I live outside London and earn quite a bit more, I haven't ever broken out of that first flush of thinking I didn't have to be so careful any more, and now I can't stop spending money on crap.

I'm off down the Coinstar tomorrow with my pennies. If I get less than £60 from my gargantuan jug of coppers I'll be miffed

Thing is, the small things can make a big difference to your quality of life. My flat white on the way to work is the treat that gets me through my crap commute and eases me into the stressful working day

I guess there's a difference between the small treats weighed up and deemed worth it and the money spent fairly thoughtlessly.

I'm spending about £35 a week in Pret (or equivalent) at the minute. Now clearly that's horrendous at a time when I'm not saving much at all and I don't even want to think about how much it's costing me a year

BUT I'm backing working almost full time with a 15 month old DS. My mornings are manic and there's a never ending list of chores hanging over my evening - when all I want to do is collapse on a sofa.

The thought of adding lunch prep to that makes me want to weep. So right now it feels like money well spent.

Now obviously if things got tighter, I'd make my damn lunch, but right now I'm happy to pay for the privilege of not having to.

I'm personally a saver and not a spender. However, I do sometimes get annoyed with the 'every little adds up' brigade when they use examples that don't actually work. For example you see quite a lot on mn people judging younger colleagues or family members for spending all their money on the latest tech. However they don't take into account that:

• The difference between your basic nokia smartphone, and the latest iphone is only about £20 a month.
• Plus the iphone may still have a fairly high resale value after the 2yr contract ends - you could make £150 back
• Plus the fact that that iphone works out as barely a £1 per day so actually works out as pretty good value for money for something used constantly
• Plus the fact that for many people an iphone/ipad actually replaces a TV/dvd player/radio/mp3 player/tv license, etc,etc so is actually excellent value

• And finally, even ignoring all this, as future says, even if a new ipad every two years was excessive - that £200 per year is never going to be equivalent to a house deposit, is it?

People are at in such different positions now than they were 20 or even 5 years ago...I can understand that, if your rent is more than 50% of your income, you may as well spend the small amount you have left over after bills, commuting, etc., on something that brings you happiness or satisfaction, as the return you would actually get from saving it instead would be negligible.

Bav using coinstar isn't looking after the pennies, separate it into money bags and the bank will weigh them up to see how much it is.

summer I'd love your spreadsheet too, if possible!

I need reminding occasionally that life is too short and I shouldn't always sweat the small stuff (I get annoyed if I realize that I have forgotten a 20p off coupon when we are out shopping, for example).

I also agree with John Reid about smoking being one of life's few pleasures for some people (I don't smoke BTW, but I think the sentiment can be applied to other products / people)