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Original poster

Barrister claiming sexism after Linked-In message

429 replies

Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 14:20

AIBU to think she's overreacting somewhat... I'm not sure so I thought I'd check out views on here:

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34206080/linkedin-sexism-row-charlotte-proudman-says-lawyer-used-site-like-tinder

She is clearly very attractive, and she has clearly gone to some trouble to post a photo that emphasises that. If a man compliments her for that, albeit rather clumsily, but nonetheless not in any lewd or crude manner, is that sexist or just a man gently flirting in the hope of a positive response?

If something as relatively innocuous as this appears to be is vilified as sexism, what are the boundaries for men flirting in a work-place environment without risking being charged with sexism? I wonder if her response would have been different if she had been single and she happenned to be attracted to the man making those remarks...

I've a feeling this might be controversial....

OP posts:
dementedDementor · 10/09/2015 19:20

Yabu op.

Beryl I had a similar-ish experience when I started out in my career but sadly I was too shy to speak out. I like to think I would have the guts to do so if it happened now I'm a bit older.

It's a shame this kind of stuff goes on in 2015 but until it stops I think public humiliation for the perpetrators is a good deterrent.

Itsmine · 10/09/2015 19:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catfordbetty · 10/09/2015 19:26

I think people's insistence on "public humiliation" is horribly primitive. What other 'crimes' are deserving of this grim twitter monstering?

ShebaShimmyShake · 10/09/2015 19:27

He was an absolute creep and behaved entirely inappropriately in the context. He would never have said that to a man, or to a woman who looked like Dame Edna. If he didn't do anything wrong, he had no reason to object to people knowing about it.

Women will never get the seriousness and thorough ubiquitousness of this taken seriously as long as they keep responding in ways that people like you deem 'appropriate' and 'proportionate' and whatnot. It's just the modern day equivalent of trying to control women by deeming them 'unfeminine'. It was a big steaming pile then and it's a big steaming pile now.

Getting it out there in public is the only way people are going to learn just how common and slimy it is and start the conversations that have the tiniest chance of getting it to change someday. Men are often stunned to hear about it because they don't realise how frequent it is - because women are told they're making too much of it and look stupid if they do something as minor as say in public that it happens!

I freaking despair!

She absolutely does not look ridiculous for publicising her harassment. But better you should think she does than she should hold your approval by continuing to swallow this crap over and over again like so many people are pressured into doing.

ShebaShimmyShake · 10/09/2015 19:30

The thing is, catfordbetty, these men rely on public humiliation to keep themselves in power - the humiliation a woman can expect to receive if she goes public and says, "Hey, you know that revolting sexist thing that happens to all of you all the time? I'm going to blow your minds here and share just one recent example of it happening to me."

As is depressingly well displayed in this thread.

I don't usually reach for platitudes taken straight off those stupid egreetings cards pictures, but in this case, it's true that well behaved women never make history. If you're more upset by a woman talking about this than the fact that it happened in the first place, you're the very reason it needs to be done.

Itsmine · 10/09/2015 19:33

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amarmai · 10/09/2015 19:36

women police women and tell them to minimise ,accept equal blame , ignore etc etcthere must be a name for women who do men's dirty work in order to profit at the expense of other women.

MrsTrentReznor · 10/09/2015 19:39

She kicked his butt in her emailed reply. I'm not pretending anything. I have worked in male environments my whole working life. I have dealt with casual sexist remarks nearly every day of that. I give as good as I get and I am treated as an equal by my colleagues. It's the customers that still annoy me.
Twitter is not the place to reprimand people that have overstepped the mark. Attitudes are changed with day to day behaviour. Not a social media dummy spitting session.
Lives are destroyed on social media. I have a friend that has had death threats for sympathising with refugees.
This man, is an idiot, he got called out and is unlikely to do that again. Does he really need the weight of the Internet bollocking him too?
Not really.

amarmai · 10/09/2015 19:44

ok i've decided to call women who kick other women on behalf of men -gender traitors. happy to consider other/better descriptions.

PHANTOMnamechanger · 10/09/2015 19:48

I can't believe what he said about his own daughter. What a sleazebag!

Original poster
Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 19:52

Her response was disproportionate in my view. She thought it appropriate to attempt to do damage to him that vastly exceeded any damage to her from his mild comment. Just because he did wrong does not mean that any and all punishments are appropriate.

OP posts:
Scobberlotcher · 10/09/2015 19:56

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Gruntfuttock · 10/09/2015 19:59

MrsTrentReznor "I have a friend that has had death threats for sympathising with refugees."

Shock WTF? I am so glad I'm not on Twitter or Facebook. That's just incredible.

Itsmine · 10/09/2015 20:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 20:03

ok i've decided to call women who kick other women on behalf of men -gender traitors. happy to consider other/better descriptions.

this ultra-feminist nonsense is crazy.

A workman is understandably irritated by a mildly inappropriate (and it is mildly inappropriate and not at all obscene) comment, so she vilifies him publicly in a 21st century version of the stocks.

OP posts:
DoJo · 10/09/2015 20:03

But it's not just damage to her she is complaining about, but the inherently damaging nature of the whole culture where men treat women in this way, knowing that it is inappropriate (as he acknowledged with his comment) but just going ahead and doing it anyway. I would be more sympathetic if he didn't clearly have form for this, but someone who objectifies his own daughter in the way this creep has is more that just a part of the problem - he is the problem.

Original poster
Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 20:05

Woman not workman!

OP posts:
Original poster
Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 20:12

But it's not just damage to her she is complaining about, but the inherently damaging nature of the whole culture where men treat women in this way,

If he had harassed her or made lewd comments maybe... But he made a mildly inappropriate comment and showed himself to be a bit of an arse. It's the black and white uncompromising nature of many comments that annoy me. He was silly, he was inappropriate.... He was not abusive or harassing. It's the equivalent of cutting off your hand for stealing a sweet.

OP posts:
Scobberlotcher · 10/09/2015 20:13

This reply has been deleted

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canyou · 10/09/2015 20:14

I did think good for you calling him on the comment but tbh was a bit Hmm when she plastered it on social media and refused his apology that was to me pure attention seeking.
Yes sexist inappropriate comments need to be dealt with but not in social media She has through her actions made herself look petty and vindictive and attention seeking.

evilcherub · 10/09/2015 20:32

If she leaked it to the media then it is probably a publicity stunt to drum up business for herself. Why post a photo at all on Linked-in? The bloke is probably trying it on a bit but I think it is nice to be paid a compliment and she could have been a bit more polite in letting him know she didn't think it was appropriate. I think she comes across as more of an arse than him.

amarmai · 10/09/2015 20:42

yep we've got a few gender traitors on this thread.

JanetBlyton · 10/09/2015 20:45

We need this. Most of us just put up with these kinds of comments all the time, again and again and again and it chips and chips away at how women see themselves and how they act. Unless men are told very publicly that this is not on it will continue.

ShebaShimmyShake · 10/09/2015 20:46

Of course it was attention seeking. That's the entire point. This kind of thing happens everywhere and there's always an excuse about why the woman was wrong in this instance to publicise it ('it was just an inappropriate comment', 'it's not that big a deal', 'yes it was wrong but she was WORSE IN HER RESPONSE' etc) . Whatever happens, there's always a reason as to why the woman should shut up.

Women are discouraged over and over from talking about it. The entire point was to draw attention to it because that's exactly what women are not supposed to do, and that's what creeps like this rely on.

And fgs evilcherub, are you trolling? Have you been on LinkedIn? It's a business networking website, showing faces encourages interaction and adds a bit of humanity to it. Are you seriously suggesting attractive women should hide their faces in public? Depressingly, yes you are. God almighty. No wonder horrible men are getting away with this shit left right and centre when this is the culture we've somehow vomited up.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 10/09/2015 20:48

Charlotte Proudman is a human rights lawyer specialising in VAW and FGM - why would she need to 'drum up business'? Confused

Still as a barrister with a strong knowledge of equality laws I'm sure she's hugely grateful for the helpful MN-ers here explaining to her what harassment is and how she should is doing a disservice to 'real victims'