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Original poster

Barrister claiming sexism after Linked-In message

429 replies

Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 14:20

AIBU to think she's overreacting somewhat... I'm not sure so I thought I'd check out views on here:

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34206080/linkedin-sexism-row-charlotte-proudman-says-lawyer-used-site-like-tinder

She is clearly very attractive, and she has clearly gone to some trouble to post a photo that emphasises that. If a man compliments her for that, albeit rather clumsily, but nonetheless not in any lewd or crude manner, is that sexist or just a man gently flirting in the hope of a positive response?

If something as relatively innocuous as this appears to be is vilified as sexism, what are the boundaries for men flirting in a work-place environment without risking being charged with sexism? I wonder if her response would have been different if she had been single and she happenned to be attracted to the man making those remarks...

I've a feeling this might be controversial....

OP posts:
Scobberlotcher · 10/09/2015 15:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DisconcertedAndRetired · 10/09/2015 15:23

There shouldn't need to be boundaries - people (men and women) are at work to work, not harass their colleagues with sexual attention.

As a child I remember reading my mothers sociology textbook, I think there was something in it about meeting through work being the most common way couples got together. That was a while ago, so may no longer be true. Anyway, I don't agree that it's reasonable to completely ban taking an interest in colleagues.

BarbarianMum · 10/09/2015 15:26
bobbywash · 10/09/2015 15:26

I thught she was very over the top, as from his message, it would appear that she contacted him first, so it wasn't "some old pervert" contacting a woman half his age.

If she found it offensive, she can do so, however then to post it on social media is pathetic. She's not standing up for femanism or the rights of anyone to do that. It's quite clear how this divides opinion, and if some women can't see the offencein his message, publically naming him over such a post was wrong. (IMHO)

amarmai · 10/09/2015 15:27

for those who are trying to equalise this [always a give away] he lives with his wife . Does that make him inappropriate or is she still as bad as him?!

Wearyheadedlady · 10/09/2015 15:28

The woman is a fool. She posted her photo online in a public place and made it open to messages from complete strangers.

The response she got was probably inappropriate, probably lecherous but in no way sexist.

My DH has had inappropriate messages on Linkedin from young women looking for someone who will fancy them and help them become tv presenters. There's a block button you know. They aren't being sexist, they are attempting (rather poorly) to be opportunist.

Its an open market i'm afraid.

Scremersford · 10/09/2015 15:29

What is the world coming to when a man can't compliment a woman?
It wasn't sexually explicit. He said her photo was stunning. Oh my god - arrest that man! Good grief. It's depressing.

Because he's a professional, LinkedIn is a way of other professionals contacting each other for work related reasons, not an introduction or dating agency. He will have had vast amounts of continuous professional development outlining sexism in the workplace and may well have worked on matters which concern it professionally. It seems fairly obvious to me that he knew it was wrong but was relying on his many years of being established in the profession, compared to what he probably saw as a younger therefore less established woman, meaning he could get away with it and get a little illicit thrill out of flirting with her at the same time (and possibly more, if he was very, very lucky). Its also clear that he vastly under-estimated her power to respond more professionally.

But in a professional, in a very regulated field where you get hauled up in front of the Law Society to explain yourself for even a speeding ticket, he will absolutely know it was inappropriate. Its his own problem if he couldn't work out that there might be consequences for him if he took that risk.

Binkybix · 10/09/2015 15:29

I thught she was very over the top, as from his message, it would appear that she contacted him first, so it wasn't "some old pervert" contacting a woman half his age

She contacted him to link as a contact. That's pretty standard and entirely normal. In no way can that be used as a reason that it's ok for him to follow up the way he did.

hellsbellsmelons · 10/09/2015 15:31

Well an older guy stopped me in the supermarket a little while ago.
He said, I looked lovely and I'd brightened his day with my smile.
Did I go mad????
Like fuck I did - that actually made my day!
I took it as the compliment it was meant to be and carried on shopping.
Bless him.

DoJo · 10/09/2015 15:32

Anyway, I don't agree that it's reasonable to completely ban taking an interest in colleagues.

I didn't suggest a ban, I said that flirting in the workplace is inappropriate and that colleagues who are interested in getting to know one another personally should do so outside of their professional environment. 'Taking an interest' can mean a range of behaviours, not all of which are professional or even legal, and if someone has trouble understanding where the boundaries lie then they should err on the side of caution, not carry on regardless and then complain when someone doesn't welcome their attention.

lastuseraccount123 · 10/09/2015 15:32

I don't think she was overreacting.

I've had a similar message on linkedin from a guy who I had accepted because I thought he wanted to make professional contact with me, not hit on me.

He was hitting on her IMO.

Cerseirys · 10/09/2015 15:32

I just wonder if she would have replied in the same manner if it was a woman who sent her that message instead of the man?

Only problem is that I highly doubt a woman would've done that.

catfordbetty · 10/09/2015 15:36

The warm glow of righteous indignation may a short-lived pleasure. Barristers' livelihoods rely on work from solicitors. She has very deliberately and publically attempted to trash the reputation of a ... solicitor.

StarTravels · 10/09/2015 15:45

They both behaved badly.

His message seems more patronising than specifically 'sexist' to me.

DoJo · 10/09/2015 15:46

My DH has had inappropriate messages on Linkedin from young women looking for someone who will fancy them and help them become tv presenters. There's a block button you know. They aren't being sexist, they are attempting (rather poorly) to be opportunist.

In a field where looks are an important part of the selection process, that kind of opportunism is understandable (if not entirely ideal), but in the field of law where someone's appearance (beyond being professionally turned out) should bear no relation on how successful they are and whether or not someone wants to work with them, then this kind of approach seems pretty sexist to me.

Original poster
Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 15:57

There shouldn't need to be boundaries - people (men and women) are at work to work, not harass their colleagues with sexual attention.

Firstly, many, if not most, relationships start between colleagues... Would you ban this?

Secondly, a single comment is not harrassment. If he had persisted, that would be harrassment.

I don't see what's wrong with men or women "dipping their toe in" in a non-threatening, non-lewd way, even at work.... this is where many of us spend most of our time after all. If the response is negative or slient, they should get the message quickly and not take it further....no excuse for harrassment, but to require complete asexuality in the workplace is an over-reaction to the sexism and misogeny of the past in my opinion.

OP posts:
MrsTrentReznor · 10/09/2015 15:58

There is a trait that I value massively in professionals like solicitors and barristers.
Discretion.
Her reply was great, her use of social media to make an example of him was not.
She was naive to think this would damage him more than her.

Booboostwo · 10/09/2015 15:58

Completely unacceptable behaviour and I don't see how anyone would think otherwise.

The comments at the end of the article by the barrister/blogger are just incredible. Apparently she contacted him so the crime is provoked, right-o, so if she had met him in real life at a conference and said 'hello' she would have been provoking him to jump her?

Original poster
Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 15:59

Harass not harrass - sorry about my spelling!

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 10/09/2015 15:59

Yes lastuser who YOU had accepted.
This woman contacted and wanted to link to him.
He didn't randomly find her and bombard with messages.

Original poster
Flashbangandgone · 10/09/2015 16:01

right-o, so if she had met him in real life at a conference and said 'hello' she would have been provoking him to jump her?

Commenting on her photo is a million miles from jumping anyone.

OP posts:
BarbarianMum · 10/09/2015 16:01

There is a trait that I value massively in professionals like solicitors and barristers, too. Professionalism.

Didn't show much, did he?

DoJo · 10/09/2015 16:03

Firstly, many, if not most, relationships start between colleagues... Would you ban this?

Potential cross-post - see my reply above.

Secondly, a single comment is not harrassment. If he had persisted, that would be harrassment.

I was responding to your question a out flirting in the workplace, not the situation with the LinkedIn comment.

to require complete asexuality in the workplace is an over-reaction to the sexism and misogeny of the past in my opinion.

I think there is a distinction to be made between a workplace where colleagues interact with one another and are (hopefully) able to make a reasonable assessment of whether pursuing a personal relationship is a mutually pleasant idea, and sending this kind of message, unprompted on a site which is designed for professional networking.

PHANTOMnamechanger · 10/09/2015 16:04

i think he behaved appallingly, and tried to 'charm' his way in a jokey jokey manner by saying he knew it was not PC. He was overtly flirting IMO. He's a married, much older man telling a young woman who he has never met that she looks stunning. This a world away from telling a colleague, of either gender, who you already know that they look nice, or you like their new outfit/hairdo. She was not posing like a glamour model inviting comment on her looks, she looks smart and professional, and deserves to be treated with respect in her field. No way would he ever comment on a mans picture. Good on her for having the balls to publicly stand up and say this is the 21st century and this is not acceptable.

What must his poor wife think. I would be gutted in her shoes Sad

Cerseirys · 10/09/2015 16:09

This woman contacted and wanted to link to him.

Yes, for professional and networking reasons. It wasn't an invitation to comment on her appearance. He wouldn't have done it if she'd been a young man.

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