Barrister claiming sexism after Linked-In message

[Flashbangandgone]

AIBU to think she's overreacting somewhat... I'm not sure so I thought I'd check out views on here:

www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/34206080/linkedin-sexism-row-charlotte-proudman-says-lawyer-used-site-like-tinder

She is clearly very attractive, and she has clearly gone to some trouble to post a photo that emphasises that. If a man compliments her for that, albeit rather clumsily, but nonetheless not in any lewd or crude manner, is that sexist or just a man gently flirting in the hope of a positive response?

If something as relatively innocuous as this appears to be is vilified as sexism, what are the boundaries for men flirting in a work-place environment without risking being charged with sexism? I wonder if her response would have been different if she had been single and she happenned to be attracted to the man making those remarks...

I've a feeling this might be controversial....

Exactly, Tondelay. Idiots falling all over themselves to find every excuse they can think of as to why she might have done this, except for 'because she's sick of eternal sexism and has a perfect right to expose it when it happens'. God forbid a harassed woman - especially an attractive one who dares to have her photo on a networking website so people might recognise her - should ever have a legitimate reason to speak out about obnoxious sexism!

amarmai

To be so intolerant of others' views that you castigate them as ''traitors" is akin to fascism, albeit a pseudo-liberal femino-fascism.

GODWIN

Oh look, Itsmine. You don't like something a woman does, so you respond to it by trying to paint her as hysterically overreacting?

Dear me!

It is the everyday sexism of the stunning photo (or the client who said this week on the phone he would not have hired me if I weren't attractive! ) which is the thing that wears at women day in day out (not rarer rape or gropers). That is why I am glad Proudman has highlighted this and it has had so much publicity as it brings into stark contrast the views of most men who think it's fine and most women think it isn't.

'God almighty. No wonder horrible men are getting away with this shit left right and centre when this is the culture we've somehow vomited up.'

Ffs this is so OTT it's crazy! Inappropriate as it might a man telling someone they look stunning in a photo is a 'horrible man getting away with 'shit'' is there any language left for the genuinely abusive men out there?

It's a bit like insisting on calling 'cream' 'black' because everything that's not pure brilliant White is all the same... It's not 50 shades of grey, it's 0 shades of grey!

No it is not OTT, Flash, but like Itsmine you are so terrified of women being angry about poor treatment that you'll scrabble around for anything to try to delegitimise what they're saying. Since women have been accused since time immemorial of being hysterical and irrational creatures, I can see why you'd take that lazy, well worn path to try to do it to both me and Proudman, but you're still wrong.

Sadly I'm not as accomplished or prominent as she is, but the principle's the same. Creepy, leery, nasty men of the world will rejoice. Hope that makes your proud.

Do you think street abuse and harassment happen in a vacuum? Do you think they don't have their roots in things like this - men turning professional networking into assessments of fuckability, and people like you blaming the woman for everything from having a simple headshot on LinkedIn to being attractive to the everlasting, 'SHE'S JUST SO IRRATIONAL' bollocks?

Can you hear yourself? In this very thread we actually had someone suggesting she should deal with this by having no photo at all, effectively making herself invisible in a business networking environment where being recognisable is kind of central to the premise?

How does one even react to this kind of bullshit? I don't know, but using social media to express what a crock it is seems as good a way as any. Twitter's the accepted medium for rape and death threats, after all, but we must be careful not to OVERREACT now, ladies....

Any ambiguity I felt about this issue vanished when I saw the comment that the same bloke left about his own daughter's picture - something about it not being for a father to post lavacious comments but she looks HOT....

In my opinion he overstepped the mark. But I agree that the punishment must fit the crime. As a lawyer she should know that. No doubt all of us have at some point sent a private message which was ill considered and we would not want circulated nationally. She could have made her point about the way men treat women sometimes by removing his name when she circulated the message and reprimandig him separately privately.

God this thread is depressing.

Itsmine, can you actually make a post without something in it with misogynistic undertones? 'God knows how you've got carried away' Can you genuinely not see this shit in your posts? Have you considered asking yourself whether you'd say the same thing to men every time you compose a post?

one of his colleagues is reported as saying he's a nice guy but he doesn't have a filter on his mouth. at his age and with years of experience in the legal profession he ought to bloomin know better!

I think he did need public shaming, as otherwise he would not have learned/accepted that he was wrong. He would have laughed it off that she must have PMT or be a lesbian if she told him where to go. And would have gone on to do the same again to some other woman who might not be as strong or influencial as Proudman, and not know how to deal with lecherous behaviour at work.

So we should only complain about the awful things that happen to us the comments that makes us feel uncomfortable or disrespected we should just accept as it's all a bit of fun no real harm done

ffs I thought we had moved on from this attitude it's a way of keeping women down is that so hard to understand

Sheba I agree that violence against women doesn't happen outside a wider cultural context, but the issue I have is that the man's LinkedIn message appears to be being made the equivalent of a violent sex crime th way it is being talked about..... There is no sense of proportion, nuance or balance.

It's as though the following logic is being used:

Rapists objectify women
Rapists should be jailed for 10 years

A man enjoying a brief glance at page 3 (if it still exists) is objectifying women

Therefore, a man having a brief glance at page 3 is no different to a rapist
That man should therefore be jailed for 10 years

We need to shout and draw attention to the true harassment, not irrelevant drivel

Yes exactly. Perhaps by training as a lawyer and conducting research into violence against women perhaps?

Also a lot of people on this thread need to acquaint themselves with the concept of 'micro-aggressions' - the small, almost insignificant verbal and physical acts against women (and other groups) that happen on an hourly basis and constantly remind us that we are inferior.

Your analogy makes no sense OP.

A man harassed a woman on social media. A woman reported it on social media. It's completely equivalent.

if the acceptable level is zero

In such an environment how could a man ever approach a woman in a way that suggested he was sexually attractive to her? If he mis-judges in any way, however small, he is fair game for vilification.

ffs a man does not need to hit on every women he finds attractive

I"m completely baffled. Why would a man need to tell a woman he was sexually attracted to her in a professional environment?

*Add message | Report | Message poster TondelayoSchwarzkopf Thu 10-Sep-15 21:45:45
Your analogy makes no sense OP.

A man harassed a woman on social media. A woman reported it on social media. It's completely equivalent.*

You have a point... The analogy was crap!

YANBU. The comments were a little ill-judged but one compliment does not constitute harassment, and I really can't understand how anybody could be seriously offended.