To think if you're a NRP and you don't pay half the child's costs you're unreasonable

[FluffyMcnuffy]

This is not a TAAT but why oh why do some people think it's fine to pay CSA minimum?

Surely the only fair way is for the NRP to pay half of what it costs to raise the child I.e. Half childcare fees, half uniforms/agreed clubs and a contribution towards housing/food if they have the child less than half the time.

AIBU to think that if they "can't afford it" then they should go without the bigger house/golf trips/ski weekends and pay for their child like the RP bloody well has to?

AIBU to judge men who don't do this when they are physically financially able?

To everyone saying the RP gets to see their child every day...my ex lives 5 minutes away from us, sees them once a week, has never asked for more contact and has never once telephoned them. To be honest I think he's going through the motions and can't really be bothered.

My ex doesn't even pay the minimum CSA, let alone more. He is self employed, and on paper his companies make zero profit. He has managed somehow to go on two foreign holidays, is getting married in a castle with 300 guests and going on an very expensive honeymoon next month.

The CSA calculated he has to pay me ??7 per week. He has never paid me this, even once, and there is little that can be done to force him to pay. ??7 buys my kids nothing, but it's the principle. He sees them quite often but apart from birthday and xmas presents he buys them nothing.

A quick question - once he marries, will his new wife's income be taken into account when calculating what he should pay? He has told me previously that she earns around ??70k a year. I don't want a penny from her as obviously they aren't her kids, but it does seem a bit bizarre that they can live like kings while I am going to the food bank and wearing an old pair of my 9 year old's shoes as mine fell to bits.

If I were in charge, non payment of child support would be an imprisonable offence.

My mum told my Dad that if his child support checks weren't on time and in full she would give us to him. Full time. For good.

He never missed a month.

Changed

To answer the OP, an NRP WDBU under those circumstances. I recall a disgusting wretch of an excuse for a man delightful specimen who tried to chat both me and my friend up at the same time, with some bizarre sob story about how his ex-girlfriend was ruining his life trying to chase him for CSA minumum, but he was terribly terribly clever you see, and had squirreled away a lot of his money overseas and was deliberately self-employed, that'll show her, ha ha ha. My friend and I were AGOG he was trying this out as a chat-up strategy... it must work on some women though

OTOH, my own father never paid child support for me, wasn't present for the first ten years of my life, and we get on splendidly. It can all turn out nicely.

It is unreasonable for a parent not to pay towards their kids. How you would work out 50 50 to be fair all round I don't know obviously the nrp needs to live aswel.
Rp who get a decent amount of maintenance plus extras and still can't be bothered to feed their kid breakfast or buy the right school uniform and put the child in ripped too small clothes are also unreasonable.

And no roomba his new wife's income won't be taken into account with regards what he should be paying for his kids. Nor should it be imho

TheSnufflet, have you ever asked your dad why he never paid? You are obviously more forgiving than me as I would find it difficult to have a relationship with someone who thought this was acceptable.

I really don't know if I should claim csa or not.. Every time I try exh threatens me and says I'm ruining his life because "he won't have any money" and why should he "not have a life"

Harbro, ignore him. CSA rates aren't much. He will have money. Why on earth shouldn't he pay for his dc? What does he think makes him so special?

Threads like this always make me laugh, when people start frothing about how NRPs should give up all/most of their income.

The reality is if you're a NRP you have to house, clothe and feed yourself, and your DC when they visit. So that means living in a home with enough bedrooms so your DC can stay over. If the NRP has a reasonable income, CSA minimum of ??200-300 should be perfectly adequate, and leave the NRP with enough to live on as well. The only families I know who are really struggling are the ones where the NRP pays nothing, and is utterly uninvolved (so the DC suffer financially and emotionally).

My own bf is NRP, he pays what the CSA have assessed. Could he afford to pay more? Yes, if he lived in a bedsit. But would that be in his DC interest? He has them overnight twice a week, so they need their own rooms to sleep in. Or he could just feed them beans on toast. Or never take them anywhere.

But what message does that send DC? Most children have no idea how much the NRP pays for them, nor would it matter to them. However would it matter if every time they visited the NRP they just got horrible cheap food, or never got to go anywhere, or had to sleep on a Zbed? Probably - especially if life with their NRP was decent food, nice home, and trips out, all partly funded by the NRP's additional contributions! How does that benefit those children? It just looks like the NRP isn't that interested in giving them nice things...

My bf has a relatively small net disposable income after he's paid CSA, and for his home. His Ex has a pt job, tax credits, her CSA money, child benefit, a mortgage which is roughly 1/4 what bf pays in rent, and a much bigger disposable income (about 4x his). I can't see any justification in that situation for him to pay more, especially as doing so would actually be detrimental to the DC in the time they spend with him.

I do feel all NRPs should be compelled to pay something. But I don't consider paying more than CSA minimum is appropriate in many cases.

That should read their life with their RP, not NRP

Changed
Are you ok?

I think you would benefit from counselling, alone.

Your h has done a disgusting thing.

I'm not surprised that you cannot ever leave him to see his child alone , you can't trust him.

Try not to blame the ow .

I have to agree with the poster unthread in wondering if it would be the best outcome for you if your h did f* off with her and leave you in peace.

How nice it would be if all parents put their children first.

My own Dad paid ??7 per week for two dc, and god forbid if he ever saw my Mum buying anything, anywhere, that wasn't food or children's clothes, because he'd moan and moan and say that she was spending our pitiful ??7 on herself, and if she can afford loreal shampoo then he must be giving her too much. He didn't see us much either, he went from girlfriend to girlfriend, dropping contact and maintenance each time because he had his girlfriends dc to support. My Mum needed that ??7 at the time, It might not sound a lot, but it was electric, it's was heating, it was food, it made the difference to if my Mum ate some weeks to not. He could have easily afforded more, he just felt that providing us with anything, was helping my Mum, and he didn't want to help her, and if she didn't act greatful he'd threaten to not pay. And then he'd wonder why his Children grew up to dislike him!!

I wish he was unique, but as I've grown and friends have seperated or divorced, I've seen many try to get out of paying. Thinking that if the mum can afford say a mobile phone or a haircut then she's either spending the child support or she doesn't need the child support if she can afford a night out etc.

Not all NRPs are like this, but it's not uncommon.

no more you have no proof that the nrp is paying anything to the rp. You beleive what they say? My ex boasted about my d at uni and claimed he paid for it-he didn't pay a penny her whole life.. Guess what he is doing now he is old and sick and needs someone to look after him-asking her if she wants to 'renew' their relationship!!

velvetspoon has nailed it.

I agree the NRP should pay a decent amount if they can, and not live the life they want while punishing their child and the RP.

However, there are plenty of people existing on just over NMW so don't qualify for help and are struggling themselves. It's not clear from your post whether you think they should still be contributing more?

Figures quoted on another thread from gingerbread stated that around 62% of parents pay absolutely nothing towards the upkeep of their children.

Of the 38% who do contribute a significant % will pay the absolute minimum.

That is truly shocking.

Also often this 62 % majority will not pull their weight regarding childcare, thus making life even harder for the rp and therefore the children all ways round.

If everything is to shared 50:50 then does that also apply to the allocation of assets on divorce then?

Thanks 3cheekymonkeys

As for going halves on bicycles and stuff, I buy my dc a main present at Christmas which could be a bicycle and he buys the dc a main present to. We don't work out what costs more as some years he's bought very expensive presents (think a computer) and other years he's bought them furbys.

I don't wish to live in a house paid for by my ex, the reason I only get 45 a month is because he has other children and I don't begrudge them. Hes very good in an emergency (hospital all night for a broken bone twice), when I didn't drive he would do the afternoon school run and Dr's appointments. That is worth more then me being petty over his money.

I'm not a high earner either but for things like beavers and brownies ect I pay the ??30 twice a year and he pays for the camp and other activities. I don't need to chase him up for the ??30 twice a year he didn't choose to put them in those clubs.

He also randomly brings me bags of lunch box sort of food, millions of toilet rolls and random deals he's found. Hes not a deadbeat for paying the csa minimum.

He is however a dickhead and I'm glad he's my ex, but that doesn't make him a bad father and I have no reason to be bitter.

If everything is to shared 50:50 then does that also apply to the allocation of assets on divorce then?

I think this is a valid point. If people expect 50:50 parenting, then marital assets should be 50:50 too. The reality is, if you can't afford to split your assets 50:50 and buy two suitable properties, the nrp is going to be left without suitable financial resources to see their children 50:50.

Somebody else mentioned wills...DH is leaving nothing to his children. Because he has nothing. No property, no savings, no assets. It all went to his ex. When you are a 40 year old man living back at your mums with nothing but a backpack, it is incredibly difficult to build up again when it took you 15 years of marriage the first time. She on the other hand has the house in her sole name, with the mortgage paid off.

I also think we need to move away from the automatic assumption that the mother is RP. If we want fathers to take responsibility for their children and not assume the mother will do it, we need to let them have the responsibility. We still have quite a way to go before we have gender equality on this front. DH tried for RP, but was told unless he could prove her unfit (drugs, abuse neglect), a court would always give the mother RP.

Sorry, but that isn't a valid point. Earning capacity may be very different, so abiltiy to rehouse on that 50% would vary between the spouses.

I haven't read the whole thread because this subject is like a red rag to a bull for me. My "husband" pays way less than the CSA minimum because I don't deserve it apparently. Never mind that he cut me off financially completely when he ran off with a wealthy widow when our ASD child was two years old. He has money to pay everything for her and her son, but our son can go without apparently. Yet he claims he is a loving father .

Men who do this are beneath contempt and I am looking forward to dragging his sorry arse back into court on this matter.

Collaborate- the point is still valid though- If both parties can't suitably rehouse on a 50:50 split, then 50:50 parenting isn't possible, as one parent will be left without the resources to house their children adequately as an equal parent.

Even taking earning capacity into account, how many people can buy/rent a 2 or three bed family home, find the deposit, limited to the same area. Only people with a big enough income that a 50:50 split leaves enough to buy another house.

Say an average ??250k home- your nrp needs to earn 71k a year to be eligible for a 100% mortgage (3.5x salary) as a single person.

yes its funny but when I had SS involvement SW were eating out of my non paying ex's hand, as he told them how 'worried' about the children he was. If 'worried' why not contribute to their expenses or , hey, even spend some time with them?
Fucking cunts.
Actually exh used to pay for them until he got with his new wife, then nothing. I cannot help thinking it is to do with her.