To think if you're a NRP and you don't pay half the child's costs you're unreasonable

[FluffyMcnuffy]

This is not a TAAT but why oh why do some people think it's fine to pay CSA minimum?

Surely the only fair way is for the NRP to pay half of what it costs to raise the child I.e. Half childcare fees, half uniforms/agreed clubs and a contribution towards housing/food if they have the child less than half the time.

AIBU to think that if they "can't afford it" then they should go without the bigger house/golf trips/ski weekends and pay for their child like the RP bloody well has to?

AIBU to judge men who don't do this when they are physically financially able?

I'm sorry I never meant to imply that everyone gets CTC, I just meant that in cases where the RP gets CTC it will reduce the cost overall to each side of raising the child, since the money is paid specifically towards the cost of raising the child.

I completely agree with you re the ??200 over the threshold, think we are in much the same situation.

It's very hard to be objective about these things when you are in a shitty situation on either side.

Fair one Mairy

Well, we were married for more than a decade before DS joined us, my exh bathed and read stories to him every single night for almost 5 years.

ExH claims to be a "family man" in his business profile, and he tells people I don't allow him to see DS, apparently I am also some sort of stalker as he insists his home address should NEVER be revealed to me.

The truth is that the "family man" has refused point blank to see his son for most of his life, he doesn't want me to know where he lives because he thinks I can request for the child maintenance amount to be revised. I know where he lives (people come and tell me things I rather not hear), I know what he earns, does he pays the minimum maintenance considering he has a six figure salary? Nope.

I look down on contempt to those happily married people who think their partners would never ever do something like that to them and their children just because they have chosen well... probably because I was one of them.

Changed

I can see how hard this is for you.

OW was pregnant, presumably you found out about her somehow, Mr Wonderful chose to stay with you (big of him) and she wants him to leave you. So she has used her pregnancy and child to either get him back or get back at him ever since. He has dealt with this by ignoring the child and pretending it never happened.

Tbh, they sound made for each other, and you would do well to sling him out and let her have him.

Changed - your husband is so selfish, self-obsessed and over-sexed he had to find someone else to have sex with because you had morning sickness so were out of action? He had unprotected sex while his own wife was pregnant?? He then got this other woman pregnant??? This woman now has his child but he doesn't see it???? And your family unit now loses out financially because has to pay out in child support every month?????

And you stayed with him because?!?!?!???!?!

I try not to judge and I don't usually swear but f*ck me what the hell are you thinking?! How can you have any respect or love or trust left? I've read some outrageous stuff on mumsnet but that really is something else! I'm so sorry you are married to such an arse.

anklebitersmum have you looked into ways to reduce your income by 200 eg charitable donation or pension?

Perhaps it is fair for each parent to contribute the same amount. Thats not 50:50 though as in many cases the state also contributes via ctc and cb. It makes no sense for rp to contribute say 25%, state 25% and nrp 50%.

"If you make Gift Aid donations, pension contributions or have a trading loss, these cut your total income figure for tax credits purposes. Use this working sheet to help you calculate the total income you need to use for tax credits claims or renewals." This is the link www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-credits-income-working-sheet-tc825
Apologies if this is not helpful, just some people dont seem to know about it
Gift aid might include sponsoring people for charity and brownies/cubs fees

sanfairyann I never even considered that, to be honest. Isn't that a little bit immoral or am I just too honest for my own good?

Sorry me again! If you donate 100, it counts as 125 for this purpose if you are a basic rate taxpayer

Its the correct way to calculate your income. I wouldnt hesitate :)

thanks sanfairyanne I'll look into it..

"Yes. It might help if they were subjected to unbearable social scorn, i.e. other women refused to date them." Oh yes! Bet bet they'd pay if they weren't getting laid!!

Totally pisses me off when new wives/partners think they're being oh so sodding generous too! Argh!!

"But I don't know who all these people are because I've never met one in real life. All the NRPs I know pay what they should and are very involved in their children's lives."

So they say!! My ex's mum and now wife didn't know he wasn't paying maintenance till it almost became an aoe and a disciplinary at work! Even now to their less close friends he makes out he's wonderful daddy, he's not seen dd for 21 months!

Changedagain79 aren't you ashamed to be with a man who's not having contact with his child when it's clearly wanted? Does what he's paying in CSA cover half the cost of raising a child? Would you be happy for him to pay the same per child you have together if you were to split? I understand your feelings towards her, but the child is innocent and was not given a choice in any of this. Why on earth did you stay with him? You're blaming the ow for something that's half your dh's responsibility.

Bottlecap I was with my ex 8 years and married 5 before we had dd. She was v much planned and we'd been through an ectopic/mc the year earlier. Don't know what else I could have done to protect myself.

I think 50/50 does need to take some things into consideration. IF the nrp genuinely provides space for their kids at their home then they shouldn't need to contribute to rent/mortgage for example. But I agree benefits are part of the rps household income. If the parents were still together that would be the case.

I keep meaning to look up the CSA thread. A lot of us on there aren't even receiving what we should be via CSA. Thats if they pay at all. Nrp's (mostly but not always dads) will hide what they're really being paid, collude with employers, be self employed and lie about income, quit working altogether, even plain disappear including changing their name!

coffeeisnectar your post about children being seen as 'meal tickets' smacks of jealousy.

And I personally find VERY offensive.

Even if/when I didn't need the money, my daughter is half his responsibility, half his CHILD! Given the current situation with him making bugger all effort to see or even talk to her, if she were to learn he wasn't even paying maintenance it would break their relationship permanently. And no I'm not saying I would tell her, but she's smart and resourceful and I'm sure would find out for herself if that were to happen.

"If men (mostly) had to pay half then they wouldn't go onto the next and have more kids, or partner somebody who already has kids." Boils my piss they get a reduction for this too. Don't think they shouldn't have more kids but just as the RP has to the nrp should need to consider the first children before making that decision.

And I think that an NRP who takes no responsibility, practically or financially should be open to criminal prosecution for neglect.

Fwiw the element of the law I find disgusting re separated parents is that an nrp is not required to and cannot be forced to, have contact with their child.

DH pays the CSA rate, he also pays for half the extras and half the mortgage on the house (which he still has financial interest in but also has to pay for rent on our house) are you saying he should pay more? Because we can't afford a holiday as it is, whilst they're regularly swanning off for various holidays. He's also forked out 1/2 the cost for DSS to have routine surgery as they didn't want to wait for 2 months on the NHS.

It's not easy to say what is a fair amount imo.

My Sil left her dh and took their ds and moves 300 miles away. She is now (6 years later) remarried and her ds goes to private school and has a very nice life.

The exh drives to see their ds 2 weekends out 3. Sil refuses to drive and meet him half way. Her exh is a decent man but he can't afford half of private school fees especially when he is driving 600 mile round trip to see his dd. sil knows this too, she doesn't mind that he only just pays above minimum. Private school was her and her new dhs choice (he sent both his sons who he is the rp for).

The exh is planning on upping payments when their ds is old enough to get the train to see him, he will pay the train as well.

They are all very reasonable with eachother. I wish my parents had been like that when they split. I just wish more people were just generally more reasonable when there is a split.

And I think that an NRP who takes no responsibility, practically or financially should be open to criminal prosecution for neglect.

I kind of agree with this, even though as I said before ex bil wouldn't be able to do 50% . It does annoy me that people (I know men and women who have done this) can just abandon their kids and not face legal consequences.

Changed so your wanker of a husband got someone else pregnant whilst you were sick with another child. Then you demanded to go to her scans.

The other woman's being a pain (surprise) your husband doesn't want to see his poor dc.

What the actual fuck. I hope you're on a wind up. Your husband is cunt.

I don't understand why you're still with him Changed and why you thought it was your place to go to this woman's scan.

This strikes directly at the heart of the matter, men are able to carry on behaving like this because they can still find women willing to be with them. Your husband strayed, he has a child with another woman now. If you decide to forgive him, then this necessarily includes accepting the loss of household income and his time so that he can be a proper father to this child as well as your own.

I'm going through mediation at the moment so had to add up all my monthly outgoings. ExH pays me £400 a month which is a fraction of them. He had to account for his outgoings and apparently can't afford to pay any more. But what really makes me angry is he refused to leave the family home so he's living (on his own) in a rent and mortgage free 3 bedroom house, whilst our 2 boys and me live in a rented 2 bedroom flat.

But what really makes me angry is he refused to leave the family home so he's living (on his own) in a rent and mortgage free 3 bedroom house, whilst our 2 boys and me live in a rented 2 bedroom flat.

What a dick. Is your name on the deed? How did he manage that?

It's really complicated. He and his brother inherited the house years ago along with another property, but never lived in it until just before DS2 was born. To my mind it was the boys' home and that should take priority over everything else but all he can think about is ensuring I don't get a penny from the properties.

Much easier to just start with 50/50 care and no maintainence is needed from either side and costs are split.

Where it's not possible then of course food, clothes and school expenses in an ideal world would be equally split. Rent and bills both sides will have regardless as both need the extra room to accomadate the children. In reality, many RP don't meet half the costs themselves as many don't work or do only a few hours so it's not only the NRP that don't pay.

I hear so many times on mumsnet "my DP pays CSA rates and spent 50 quid on some school shoes, my ex doesn't pay anything" hailed like some badge of honour.

Your ex is a shit and your DP is a shit.

Re the having more children point, how about don't have more children/take on somebody else's if you can't afford the ones you've got. That goes for RP and NRP.

Have been pondering on this recently, because of personal circumstances, and realised that my ds's weekly money is roughly as follows: ??20 cb, ??60 child tax, ??12 maintenance plus money from me. If I match his dad's money, that's an extra ??12, or if I match the 15% of wages, that would roughly be ??35. So that gives me roughly ??100 or ??120 a week, depending which of my contributions count. Ds is 13, so no childcare costs to find, and that is probably a fair approximation of what his weekly costs are (including additional rent etc) when averaged across the year, excluding any expensive school trips, of which we haven't yet had any.

Some basic notes to this, yes ??12 is roughly 15% of his dad's wages, dad lives with his parents so cannot have ds overnight (no space) and now sees him as ds wants, but at least every other Sunday and normally time during the week (which is a lot more, and a lot more consistent than it ever was). Yes I get child tax, and given the average local wage is about ??15,000 I am unlikely to stop receiving it unless major changes come in or he leaves education.