To think if you're a NRP and you don't pay half the child's costs you're unreasonable

[FluffyMcnuffy]

This is not a TAAT but why oh why do some people think it's fine to pay CSA minimum?

Surely the only fair way is for the NRP to pay half of what it costs to raise the child I.e. Half childcare fees, half uniforms/agreed clubs and a contribution towards housing/food if they have the child less than half the time.

AIBU to think that if they "can't afford it" then they should go without the bigger house/golf trips/ski weekends and pay for their child like the RP bloody well has to?

AIBU to judge men who don't do this when they are physically financially able?

I don't agree and I get the csa minimum for his wages ??45 a month.

He also contributes by buying school shoes while I buy the rest and hair cuts. He also contributes to school trips.

I actually think that's fair. Why should he pay all of it and I'm the mum. His ??45 I spend on dc and I don't use it to pay my bills. My bills are for what I go to work for.

Bottlecap I was with my ex 8 years and married 5 before we had dd. She was v much planned and we'd been through an ectopic/mc the year earlier. Don't know what else I could have done to protect myself.

Bacon, I am more than aware that there are women who vet men very carefully and things still turn out badly. I think they're probably a minority (not a teeny minority, certainly - among others, my sister is one of them).

Here on MN in particular I see threads all the time that feature people having children way too early on in a relationship, it's a recipe for poverty. I can't imagine that the number of men who leave their families high and dry are the same men who can put 3 or 4 or 5 years into a relationship pre-kids without sending up red flags.

yep my ex pays csa minimum

he lives in a big swanky house and has a big mortgage, holidays to places like Thailand and we struggle

he wouldn't be able to afford half of it if he paid half the actual cost of ds but its not worth the shit i get if I ever ask him for any more

If someone said to you- I'm going to take your kids off you, and your house and all your belongings.

You have to pay me 50% of all their costs for the privilege, and find money for a new house, where the kids have their own room. But you can only see them EOW.

I like having kids, I like having them around. Personally I'd far rather be the RP and pay a bigger share of their costs, than be a nrp.

I imagine most of us feel the same? If you don't maybe we should look at allowing more men to be RP, instead of automatically assuming it'll be the mother. Because it's exactly how DH feels. No amount of financial contribution or weekend access makes up for the fact he's not there for all the daily little things.

My Ex doesn't pay half of everything for DS1 and I have no problem with it at all. He has two children he pays for, neither lives with him. When we split up he moved back in with his parents, I had my own home with a very small mortgage. I never put him on my mortgage so had no problems taking it on solo.

He's now met, and lives with, someone else who also has a child and pays the minimum without fail each month for DS1. I'm married to someone else too and we have a child together. When I had DS1 I had a good level of savings and a relatively good income. I've always worked and always earned a decent salary. DH earns a very high salary and between us we've never struggled financially. So DS1 does rugby, judo, horse riding, swimming club twice a week and cubs. I chose those activities because I felt they were the right ones for DS1. I choose to take him on holidays abroad, teach him how to snowboard and ski and do of mini-breaks with him. It would be unreasonable in the extreme to say to my Ex that I expect him to pay 50% of DS1's activities and holidays and pastimes when I'm the one who chooses them.

He contributes in terms of buying shoes and clothes when he thinks DS1 needs them. He takes him out regularly and (not Disney-Dad-style) they go on holidays and adventures together. But I can't expect him to match the income of DH and I in terms of what we pay for and it would make us all resentful if I did.

I appreciate not all RP's are in this position, and for those who do struggle, I agree that the NRP should contribute a fair amount, not the bare minimum. But it can't be a blanket rule that all NRP's should pay 50% because there are cases where it's simply unnecessary.

timetomusk your a breath of fresh air

I haven't RTFT so sorry if this has already been covered, but isn't CSA worked out based on how much the NRP earns as well as how many nights a week they have the DC? When working mine out I used the calculator on the government website and as I earn a decent wage the amount came out at somewhere around ??274 per month (I do pay more than this in fact, plus buys clothes sometimes and lend money to EXH that I never see again). One DC of infant school age. AIBU in the amount I pay? No childcare costs although of course this would need to be reviewed if there were.

CHANGEDAGAIN.your hubbys ow cannot force contact .but i cannot believe you are still with him he would have been shown the door what happens next time you not feeling great is there going to be another baby on the scene .sorry but you need to wake up .you are either low because of post natal depression or just a complete mug .i am sorry for you

I think that if you shag someone else's husband and get pg, it's massively cheeky to expect him to go to your scans. He's already committed elsewhere and if you want a man to be involved, pick one who's free! She will have to explain to her child one day that the reason their dad doesn't see them is because he was already married to someone else! Horrible conversation to have because she is basically telling her kid that neither of its parents have any morals.

Changed I feel really sorry for you. I would have left him. I could maybe forgive the cheating, but not him getting ow pg. I think he does need to pay what the child actually costs, even though in your shoes I would resent every penny and wouldnt want him having anything to do with the ow.

Tbh, I don't know how you get over something like that. I couldn't respect or trust him ever again - he didn't even think of you enough to use a condom! And one day your own dc are going to know all the sordid details of this - I think my dc would lose respect for me if I stayed.

Actually forget I said that. I just checked and I pay way over the minimum.

I'm astonished by the number of people who think that an nrp should only provide for their children if the rp is on the breadline. Even if the rp has holidays, it doesn't mean the nrp should not provide for their own kids. It doesn't matter what kind of a house they live in. Even if the rp is in a position to dress the children in gold and let them only eat from their personal chef's kitchen, the nrp should still be doing their bit.

You are responsible for the social, personal and material welfare of your children, even if you'd rather not be. If you don't want to accept that a person with whom you get involved has these responsibilities, don't go for a parent.

You are responsible for the social, personal and material welfare of your children, even if you'd rather not be. If you don't want to accept that a person with whom you get involved has these responsibilities, don't go for a parent.

Well said.

I'm also surprised at the amount of people who seem to think that if the RP is comfortable financially then the NRP should pay less, or even nothing at all.
A NRP is still a parent regardless of what the RP earns. You don't stop having responsibilities as a parent because the other earns decent money. Yes, you might not be able to match half of an expensive lifestyle, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't contribute at all.

If this is all about the well being of the children as it should be.

If the RP earns more money than then NRP shouldn't they give money to the NRP so the child has an equal standard of living at both houses?

Tree Exactly ! That's why some end up being called grabby/spiteful because they are not chasing this miney for their children. It's usually just to make a point (see mumwith 's post).

Finally, seven pages into a thread, someone has made the point that RPs have the pleasure of actually living with their children and seeing them every day! Well done Micah!

You'd think from these threads that living with your own children is some kind of hardship or punishment that has been forced on people by their nasty ex's against their will.

As a RP, yes I pay more overall for my children than my ex does, but then I get to be the one who sees them every day, have the most influence in how they are brought up, make the choices that I think are best. I'm in a much better position as a parent than my ex, who is very supportive and wishes he could be the one to live with his dc.

Osolea - sorry but i think that's twaddle.

Fantastic that you enjoy your DCs, but why on earth does that equate to a non res parent not having to pay half what it takes to raise the child? Children aren't an amusement; to be shared out according to who's enjoying them!

My XH declared how much he desperately wanted to do half and half care for his DCs 8 years ago when we split up. He said he'd pay his half of their upbringing needs and how desperate he was to not be in their lives full time. The DCs and i stayed very local to facilitate this. What happened? He started as he meant to go on - seeing them once a month for 12 hours exactly. The first 2 years he payed no CM or bought any xmas presents. But hey! Why should he?! It's me who gets to see them every day!

I had a child at the age of 36 as a joint decision with my XH. I never craved a baby at any point in my life. He was very much a part of that decision. He was a very hands on dad. I left a job earning ??20K a year so that I could work around my DD and her school hours. (part time when I left but I could have upped the hours once she started school).

Why should I be the one who is left to bring her up on my own and to pay for everything? Why shouldn't he have to pay a fair amount?

Why shouldn't he pay for half of Brownie camp and half her swimming lessons?.

Why shouldn't he pay for half a new bicycle or laptop or school residential at ??200 or whatever else she needs in the future?

I made decisions in my life based on the fact that I was married with a husband to support me emotionally with the child and to help financially. I always worked.

Yes I get to see my DD all the time, but that doesn't mean that I can afford it. I am the one who can't work when she is ill. I am the one who can't work full time during the school holidays. I am the one with life insurance to cover the mortgage, to ensure that DD is provided for in the future.

I go without things so that DD can do her clubs and we can go on cheap holidays every year. XH hasn't taken her anywhere in 4 years. He buys costa coffee and eats out all the time and goes to concerts and holidays abroad. He wears trendy branded clothing and contact lenses now. He has the full Sky TV package and Netflix. He has a gym membership. His 3 month old baby started Waterbaby classes in the same week that he stopped paying for half of DD's swiming lessons. What is he cutting back on in order that he can pay a fair amount for his child? Nothing.

He wanted that child. He should pull his weight in looking after her and also in paying a fair amount of maintenance for her.

I have read the whole thread - and this has been mentioned before, but-

CSA rates are a sliding scale - beyond a certain point, costs incurred are optional, and often under the control of the RP.

My "CSA rate" is over ??600 as I earn a lot (not bragging - just what it is).

I do pay more than this, but I am not convinced that everything my daughter needs can't be covered from what I pay and her mother contributes - in fact this thread is timely as EX has recently asked for an additional ??55 a month to cover out of school activities which she's signed up for without any reference to me.(I asked about this in another thread).

It is far from as simple as saying "CSA rate only pays for food and housing" or "everyone has to pay 50% and anyone who doesn't is a deadbeat".

I (and DD and Ex) are fortunate that we aren't struggling financially, and I recognise that and am grateful every day BTW.

I would like DD to spend more time with me - I would especially like it if she could ever have woken on Christmas day at my home - but Ex refuses, and I have decided not to lawyer up and push it for DD's sake. I am saving evidence in case DD asks why she had to have Christmas at mummy's every year - at least she will know (if she cares) that it wasn't for want of asking.

Eponas, I've not said that a NRP shouldn't have to contribute, of course they should contribute and I said I believe as much earlier on in the thread. I just don't like the way some posters come across as if they're doing their ex a favour by looking after their own children as if it's a hardship.

Have you / your DCs been provided for through life insurance or inheritance?

Surely that works for RPs making provisions for NRPs then too....

Pressed too soon...

As if something happened to the RP then the NRP may very well become RP. IYSWIM

Looking after one's own children isn't a hardship, but being solely responsible often causes financial hardship and and problems wrt working because there is no one to share the sick days and holiday time off!

And for every nrp (usually dad) who wants to be more involved and willingly pays the true cost of raising the children, there are a hell of a lot more who don't. Or who talk a lot but would be unwilling to actually do it, if it infringed on their new lives too much.