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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Coach leaving my son out of the team

256 replies

Mousybrown · 08/09/2015 18:09

I'm really not if I should say anything or not as I'm normally pretty easygoing about kids stuff but this has really got my back up.
my son has played for the same football team for the last 7 years, every training session and match, he is there no matter what the weather...even if he is just on the bench but following a text from the new coach ( who has just taken the team over)he has been left out of the squad for the first two matches of this coming season ( not even on the bench, he has been told not to come...unless he wants to each from the sidelines).......this would be fine (ish) was it not for the fact that the new coach has taken on severl new players over the summer, some who already play for other teams and theses 'new boys' have been included in the team in some capacity either as players or as subs.
My son is gutted ( he is 11) and he doesn't want to go at the weekend to watch with all the other boys asking him why he isn't playing or in the kit and I really want to tell the coach to shove it......I know he isn't their star player and they want to put a good team out but......the kids has been a loyal player for years and he has been overlooked for kids who are only just signed and I feel so sad for him.......so would I be unreasonable to speak to the coach or not??

OP posts:

jonicomelately · 09/09/2015 09:56

MiddleAgedand Confused
I still completely disagree with you. Maybe you should reread Lullington"s post as she speaks a lot of sense.

Both my boys love to win. Which child doesn't, and if I'm honest I love to see them win too. What I object to is the winning at all cost remark. That is a stupid attitude and is actually very detrimental to children's sporting ability. The problem, and I have seen this countless times myself, is that the child, parents and coaches soon become overwhelmed by the desire to win and this often turns into the fear of losing. Much of sport is in the head as well as the feet and this need to win/fear of losing inhibits children at the very time they should be taking chances and developing their skills.

I tell my own boys to enjoy their games. I tell them that they have to put in 100% effort but I also tell them that if I see them not making mistakes they haven't been in the game enough. After the game finishes, I tell them how entertaining it was and how much I enjoyed watching them play. There is no post mortem. They are bright boys who know when they make a mistake so what point is there if I bellow at them that they've messed up when they are still in the game or in the car on the way home. They are lucky (and this has been commented upon my their friends) that they have a dad who doesn't scream 'advice' to them from the touchline. The worst thing I see in sport are boys who are constantly looking at their parents for approval while they are playing. How can they play to the best of their ability when all they can think about is whether their coach or parents are happy?

As for sport being competitive, my ds are both highly competitive naturally, but they also know how to lose. DS1 has recently won three major regional competitions in two different sports which is apparently some sort of record. He has been selected to tour internationally soon and he plays district level in some of his sports. He has had a bit of a dip in form recently but has the emotional artillery to cope with it and is working his way out of the slump. As for DS2 he is that child who wins all the awards He was recently described in one of his sports as the best they had seen at his age. He's also playing a sport at district level, despite being a year below the age group. I'm not boasting (well, perhaps a little) but I want to make the point that Middleagedandconfused seems to think my approach is a bit wishy washy. Perhaps it is, but it works for us.

budgiegirl · 09/09/2015 09:57

the academy system in the UK the focus is not on how good the boys and girls are at this age, but their development as players. Academies don't post their results for this reason.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't academies hold trials? They certainly do round here. So they've already selected strong players to develop, it's easy at that point to include everyone and say it's not competitive. If it was truly nothing to do with ability, they wouldn't hold trials, but would accept children no matter what their standard.

jonicomelately · 09/09/2015 10:04

Yes of course academies hold trials. DS2 attended one until I pulled him out because I didn't want him specialising in one sport too soon. The point I was making though is the academy approach is vastly different to your DH's approach budgie or at least the ones I know are (and my boys have friends who are still in the system). It's all about development and there is less emphasis on winning. Middleaged's pithy comment about boys being told to share the ball actually reveals how little he/she knows about football. Boys who are hoping to be elite footballers are actually told to pass (share) the ball. If they don't, they are out. This is why the boys who hang on to the ball at all cost hoping to score when the could've passed (and there are tonnes of these in every league) are still playing at a lower level and haven't been selected by their local academy.

Lullington · 09/09/2015 10:17

Jonicomelately what a great attitude you have and it is no surprise to me that you have kids who are successful in their sport.

budgiegirl · 09/09/2015 10:20

Joni. My point was that it is easy for an academy to include and develop everyone, when all the players have already reached a certain standard. They wouldn't just take Joe Bloggs down the street with two left feet and try to develop him, would they? So it is competitive, it is about winning, it is about developing future elite players. And there's nothing wrong with that.

But when your DSs played in lower leagues, would you truly have been happy for them, as talented players, to not be selected for games when less talented players were taken along. Would you expect, for instance, a secondary school team not to take their best players?

MiddleAgedandConfused · 09/09/2015 10:24

jonicomelately
What I object to is the winning at all cost remark.
And what I object to is you claiming I have made a remark that I haven't. Nowhere in my posts do I say that. All I say is that sport is competitive and rightly so.
Congrats to your son and his achievements.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 09/09/2015 10:26

PS I also have a DS who competed this year in club national finals for 2 sports and school national finals for 1. But he is no stranger to time on the bench or not being picked for a match.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 09/09/2015 10:31

The level of competition is actually a moot point isn't it? Even if the team were truly only playing for recreation and fun, the coach would still to rotate the players.
Scenario 1: Competition is main focus: Snowflake only gets picked if he is good enough.
Scenario 2 Participation is main focus: Snowflake has to take his turn and let the other boys have a shot.
End is the result is the same - there will be times when he is not picked or sat on the bench.

jonicomelately · 09/09/2015 10:32

budgie My experience is that once they are in the academy, competition (at least the sort of competition I see in the ordinary leagues) goes out of the window. My eldest ds has a friend who is at an academy and is tipped for the top and he never talks about winning/scoring. He focuses on fitness and developing his skills.
Both my ds have lost places to less able players in the past. It happens and it hurts and it's unfair but that's where the love of the game and the emotional resilience kicks in. Having said that, I really really enjoy watching less able boys play in games, try their best and have a good time. That is worth more than any trophy.

jonicomelately · 09/09/2015 10:35

Thanks Lullington I have made lots of mistakes over the years and I'm sure I'll continue to do so but at least I'm trying to do the right thing!

Anotherusername1 · 09/09/2015 10:36

No there is a difference. In a very competitive team Snowflake will never get to play and might get 10 minutes in one match every 3 weeks or so. In a participation team ideally the squad will be small enough to mean that everyone gets to play at least half a match every week and probably 3/4. You need subs but it is entirely possible to ensure that everyone gets to play an equal amount of time. One of my friend's sons played in a team where they had a week off every 12 matches or so, others may play 3/4 of a match every week.

If you sit on the bench every week you're not going to get better anyway.

Other sports are much better are being inclusive and ensuring participation eg rugby or athletics.

Lweji · 09/09/2015 10:38

I'm paying for my son to learn, which is why he enrolled a football school. That means practicing in competition too. I'm not paying for him to be in a competitive team. I just want him to do some sport and enjoy himself.
So, if his current group becomes competition only, I'll be prepared to take him out (although, TBH, I could do without the weekend games)

SiencynArsecandle · 09/09/2015 10:39

I was a football coach for a local junior team for a couple of years and unfortunately this type of reaction is all too common, and part of the reason I left. I would play everyone who turned up, we lost every game and the divas who thought they were better players all left leaving us with 11 kids who turned up because they loved the game. The divas would turn on the others, blaming them (and me) for every single thing and I can't stand that attitude, especially in a team game. No matter what the weather, these 11 would be there, they played as a team and came off the pitch smiling regardless of the score. They have all moved on to another manager now, who has not asked a lot of them to sign which is disgusting. He operates a win at all costs mantra, how are these kids going to enjoy winning when they don't understand what its like to lose?

Really feel for you OP.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 09/09/2015 10:40

Anotherusername1 - true - but OPs gripe (which is what I am focusing on) is that she believes snowflake should play every week because he has been at the club for years and always goes to the training.
And (which really gets my goat) he can't be expected to support his team if he is not on the pitch because not being picked is just too upsetting for him.

jonicomelately · 09/09/2015 10:43

Middleagedandconfused

This is the comment you made which I disagreed with:

It is no longer about participation - it is about winning

123Jump · 09/09/2015 10:45

Hi OP, I had this problem last year at school. DS is not very good at footy, but he really loves it. Anyway, he isn't on the team, but they were having matches against another school and all the boys who went to footy club were eligible for this. Except DS. I was so upset for him.
In fairness to him, he asked the teacher himself why he wasn't picked, as he felt it was so unjust. Turns out the teacher had just missed his name, and he went and had a ball.
But I spoke to my DSis at the time, who is a PE teacher. She said it is very hard to balance. There are always those kids who turn up, week after week, give there all. But just aren't as good as some of the others. She finds it hard to leave the triers out.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 09/09/2015 10:46

SiencynArsecandle - coaches put in so much work and get very little thanks. My son has benefited so much from the volunteers who run his teams. It makes me really cross when parents think their son has a right to be on the pitch before others in the team and think it is reasonable to go to the coach and pick a fight about it.
My attitude has always been that you support the team and the coach even when the decision does not go your way. And kids should support their team even when they are not on the pitch personally, not stay at home and sulk that they aren't on the squad that week.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 09/09/2015 10:48

jonicomelately - I stand by that comment for this age group (not so much for younger ones). At 11 the kids want to win. That's why they train and play sport. They do it hoping that they will win.

budgiegirl · 09/09/2015 10:50

I do agree that it should never be a 'win at all costs' attitude. But I do think that there is nothing wrong with a bit of competition, at secondary age upwards. As I said, my DH generally would have a few core players, and rotate the weaker players. That did mean that some players got a game every week, others maybe only played every other week, and there was one who usually only played in friendlies.

But DH went out of his way to spend lots of time with the weaker players during training, to build and develop their skills. And he did also encourage those who had not been picked one week to come and cheer on their team mates (not that many did - although I expect that was often because parents wanted a lie in !)

It is about trying to get the balance between competitiveness and inclusion - it's a tricky line to walk.

jonicomelately · 09/09/2015 10:54

I think they're too young at 11 to care too much about winning. Of course they care but even the most competitive of children get over losing. The parents and coaches on the other hand are a different matter...

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 09/09/2015 10:57

Read the OP again Middle. She doesn't expect him to play every week. She is pissed off that the new coach has brought in players with him meaning her son isn't picked. Hardly unsurprising if team spirit has been completely undermined and he doesn't want to go and watch from the sidelines. And no I'm not saying that no new players should be allowed in, but that should happen naturally, not the coach coming in with a bunch of his favourites.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 09/09/2015 10:58

jonicomelately
I think they're too young at 11 to care too much about winning.
Laughed out loud at that one -
We must have very different children! My DC has focused on winning since he was tiny. And no - it's not how we raised him as our other DC could't give a stuff about anything competitive - most definitely nature not nurture!

GingerDoesntHelp · 09/09/2015 11:00

If your son was a sixth former, I would be telling him to sort himself out and find a more recreational team but at the age of 11, any good coach should be making sport about enjoyment and having a go. The winning should not be the point at this age as that focus can stop the kids from developing their skills and becoming better players later on.
Find a team that puts enjoyment and participation first.

budgiegirl · 09/09/2015 11:01

this would be fine (ish) was it not for the fact that the new coach has taken on severl new players over the summer, some who already play for other teams and theses 'new boys' have been included in the team in some capacity either as players or as subs.

The OP doesn't say that the coach brought players with him, just that he's taken on some new players. That's normal, kids do move around clubs to be with mates, because they're new to the area, or because they want to try a different club. She certainly doesn't say that the coach has come in with a bunch of his favourites - you are projecting there whatsthat

All kids football clubs get new members sometimes. And it's fine to play them in a match, maybe the coach wants to see how they play.

jonicomelately · 09/09/2015 11:02

There is a difference between wanting to win and being competitive. It is a subtle difference so perhaps it's difficult to understand. One team that my ds plays for is having a dip in form. His very experienced coach (an ex international) is highly competitive but has told them he is getting back to basics and focussing less on them winning and more on development. The boys get this, but I guess, given the description of your ds he wouldn't understand this approach? I suppose we do have very different dc

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