AIBU to tell friend to report her OH's behaviour with their 4wk old baby?

[WilsonPoppy]

I've name changed for this. I don't have kids yet so I need help to judge this one.

My friend just had a baby 4 weeks ago and was struggling with recovery from caesarian at first but now she is settled and really happy although she has tendencies to be quite stressed and a bit low.

BUT she told me in conversation today that her OH can be quite rough with the baby and last night they were both sitting on the sofa with baby laying down in the bouncer in front of him. My friend couldn't pick baby up from that awkward angle because of her caesarian scar so she asked OH to pick her up and pass her over. She said he picked her up by the scruff of her neck (her baby grow) with one hand and handed her over to her like that across the sofa.

She said she went mad with him and he said he was busy with his other hand (doing something to his foot). I told her that he needs to know he can't handle a baby like that and she totally agreed it was ridiculous and said the baby should be a priority over his ankle.

She told me he is quite rough with the baby and shakes her around a bit too much sometimes when he is changing her/winding her. She then said that he walks around with her in one hand and she doesn't like it. She's told him to use two hands but she saw him with her tucked under his arm like a rugby ball and he went to the toilet and did the toilet with her like that a couple of times and she went mad with him.

After I took all this in I said 'You need to talk to him about this very seriously, he can't do that, it's really disrespectful, it's child abuse' and she said 'he won't do it again, i've told him'. She thinks he is just a bit naive about babies and it's early days and he has zero common sense. He is a big drinker but she tells me he has been behaving himself lately. When he drinks he gets so drunk he doesn't even know who she is or where he lives.

The day they came home from hospital he was swinging her very high up (above his head) quite fast and I thought 'that's too high, too fast' for a 4 day old baby'. I didn't say anything then and maybe i should have. Her neck was supported and she was tiny in his big hands.

I can't ignore it and I'm going to tell her to speak to her health visitor / GP / doctor about it.

AIBU to tell her she has got to tell her health visitor what her OH is doing?

I have DC. I have frequently held them in one hand. I've used the kitten hold (grasping a handful of babygro over the chest to pick them up). I've gone to the loo with them under one arm like a rugby ball.

NONE of what he is doing sounds like the same thing. You have to be some kind of stupid to shake a baby/swing a newborn baby around/pick it up roughly.

Yes. People breast feed like that too, the crazy endangering loons!

Did you also do the newborn swinging high, picking up by the scruff of the neck and shake it around?

The way the OP has phrased it is bad. Didn't see the swinging high bit? She said he picked her up by the scruff of the neck, but that's not true. He picked her up by the babygro. My DH used to do this with our DC's. I didn't like it either, but it certainly wasn't abuse and the babies were fine. And as I wrote in an earlier post, the OP writes that he shakes the baby while winding her or changing her. I don't think she really means shakes as can't picture it. What's he doing? Changing her bum and then randomly shaking her really hard? Maybe too rough, patting to hard in the mother's opinion, because we are very precious over our newborns. The OP chooses her words badly, but she did state in a later post that there's certainly no malicious intent from him

"all signs of being an excellent involved parent"

We don't know that he is 'excellent' any more than he is 'shit'. That's the point. We're all writing our own little stories, apparently. What fun.

Lol. I like you multivac

I also think it's hard to tell from the OP as some it sounds subjective. My midwife showed me how to hold DD and she actually said it was the 'rugby ball hold'. Also, I've been known to use the toilet while holding my baby and so have my friends. Anything rather than leave him to cry or trust him to the dubious cleanliness of a public toilets floor. It's never done him any harm.

The picking him up by the scruff of the neck, I'd be concerned about. However, I'm aware that people who are very comfortable with their babies (I'm thinking of Yoga Mum) can do all kinds of things with them that don't hurt at all. And my husband was a bit overly nonchalant at the beginning but it was down to inexperience and not having a clue. He soon pulled his socks up.

The shaking is very concerning but it's a very strong word to use and it's very strange that you don't devote a separate anecdote to this, if it's true.

I don't think you should make any judgments about this father's attitude to his baby but yes, if I was his wife i would be watching him like a hawk.

It sounds like he's doing it to get to the mother; to upset her. Which it is!!

if the brain is shaken inside the skull serious damage can be done. the mother is likely also the recipient of rough handling if this he man does that to a newborn. I would report -the mother wont.

Yes. People breast feed like that too, the crazy endangering loons!

While sitting down, using a breastfeeding pillow to support the baby's neck and chest. Or at least, I did...

"the mother is likely also the recipient of rough handling if this he man does that to a newborn"

FFS - so now he's a wife-beater?

As I say, this would be funny, if there weren't real people involved.

Tbh the heavy drinking is what would worry me the most.

Dh used to do the rugby ball hold with ds and had also lifted him by the babygro (when he was able to support his head himself). There was nothing rough about it. But he never would have shaken him, why would you? Unless it was one of those playful jostled while head was supported things (not explaining it very well but no malice involved).

While sitting down, using a breastfeeding pillow to support the baby's neck and chest. Or at least, I did...

Not always. When you have multiple DC's it is often necessary to walk around doing stuff at the same time as breast feeding!

Both of the holds people are describing here are safe and appropriate. It's not clear from the OP how the individual actually was carrying the baby so it's hard to say. But the new mum needs to be assured that it's perfectly fine to carefully and safely hold a baby in one arm. It's not realistic to expect yourself or someone else to always use two arms.

I still maintain that the advice given by OP to her friend was probably correct, because OP knows the people involved and has observed at least one incident that seems to corroborate the concerns your friend has.

OP if you're wondering now whether or not you were unreasonable, particularly after reading these comments and the range of opinions, you could maybe suggest to your friend that instead of 'reporting it' she discuss this in detail with her husband and let him know that she's not comfortable with the way he's doing things. Perhaps it is just over confidence or not being clear on how best to handle a tiny baby. If he listens and engages and then changes his approach a bit to reassure her, then all is well. If on the other hand he dismisses it or continues to scare her with the way he looks after the baby, it will need further work.

Another possibility is that the lowness/stress/etc is making your friend overanxious and that this is colouring her perceptions of her OH's actions. It could be the beginnings of PND if it begins to get really out of hand, as PND often presents as over anxiousness about safety of baby.
Are you able to meet up with her here and there and check she's ok in herself in the weeks to come?

If the mother is concerned about it, it should be reported.

The thing is, a baby of four weeks is only beginning to be able to lift his or head. It will be at least a couple more months before it's safe to let baby support its own head as you do when you're picking it up by the babygro or whatever. This is not a safe way to pick up a four week old baby.

Notime In fact, I do have multiple DCs. I have never only experienced looking after only one child, as I had twins without ever having had a singleton.

Nevertheless, I made sure all spines and necks on tiny, tiny babies Who Were Too Young To Hold Their Heads Up were supported while breastfeeding. Even if I needed to do the washing-up. The amazing device that allowed this? A sling. Bought it in Boots.

I heavily suspect that there is a certain amount of confusion in this thread between the way one holds four-month-olds and four-week-olds.

This is upsetting to read and I don't understand why others don't find the handling of the baby very wrong.

I heavily suspect there's a certain amount of confusion in this thread between things that are known actually to have happened, and wild speculation based on hearsay.

I wonder how the OP's friend would feel knowing her partner is currently being described as an abusive, alcoholic cunt [sic] who is violent with her as well as their child?

And I hope the OP has taken the (sensible) advice to have a proper word with her friend and a health professional about her concerns.

Well, yes, I agree about the wild speculation. I mean, I was just told about the demands of breastfeeding and doing housework if one has multiple children. I speculate that this was on the speculative assumption I have an only child and a cleaner.

Narp, its because its impossible to tell from the OPs post what's actually going on here.

None of us have seen the husband's behaviour. Instead, it's being reported 3rd hand by the OP.

So, 2 level of subjectivity:

The wife's version of events - which may or may not be clouded by her own anxieties/post partum hormonal turmoil

The OPs reporting what the wife told her - again, may or may not be exaggerated or confused in the retelling.

In addition, language has its limitations and sometimes struggles to convey a consistent/accurate picture to all. OP has used the word 'shaking'. This could be a very violent action (which would be extremely worrying) or a bit of a jiggle - exaggerated consciously or unconsciously by either the wife or the OP.

I'd have to see what the husband was doing to make a judgement.

TheIncomparable: "I heavily suspect that there is a certain amount of confusion in this thread between the way one holds four-month-olds and four-week-olds."

I agree. With a newborn you want to be very gentle and delicate. I wouldn't pick a newborn up by its babygro. Neither would I swing it above my head. Indeed, why would you want to?

So I would be worried that he is going to injure the baby, even if accidentally.

Frankly, LaurieMarlow, that's just crazytalk.

yanbu, speak to someone op, not just mumsnet. speak to GP or health visitor or NSPCC in RL.