to ask why society hates single mums?

[maxxytoe]

Just why?
I very rarely see the press mention anything about single mums in a good way , it's always vilifying them for being single , on benefits etc
Even on facebook people I know (who have been raised by single mums may I add ) do status' saying something along the lines of 'the single mums will be out spending the child benefit in town tonight'

There's a guy at my work who got custody of his children and people cant praise him enough and say how he's doing a great job etc
But yet my colleague who is a single mum doesn't get the same ?

What is societies problem with single mums?!

and again, Frank, what is it you want people who find themselves with no choice but to face parenting alone to do?

why do you consider it appropriate to stigmatise us in this way?

So what are you suggesting needs to happen frank?

I know I'm only ever an unfortunate accident/ illness/ surprise infidelity/ abuse or any infinite number if things that may happen away from being a single mum myself.

Yes. That said, 25% of the population can't be single parents owing to 'exceptional' circumstances unless men are inherently incapable of fidelity. Also, insurance protects against the death of a spouse.

So what are you suggesting needs to happen frank?

I'll answer in frank's stead. I suggest that we attempt to reverse the trend of people having children with partners they don't know very well. This would eliminate a large chunk of children growing up in households where they have little or no access to their fathers, leaving only a minority whose parents have stumbled upon irreconcilable differences or previously undetected pathological disorders after many years of coupledom.

I'm waiting for franks solution, bet it's hilarious.
mrsdevere I'd say probably not as bad, your generations kids are now old enough to put across their side. And afaik the comments I remember directed at classmates (I'm early 30's) aren't common now. Dd has had one comment, but the kid in general is spiteful towards anyone different, and fed her daily fail opinion from her warped parents so I don't think it's representative. Nowadays we do have the technology to spread twatty opinions further, but I think it's easier than it would have been for you. I know in the 70's my friend had an unmarried single black mum, and they had an atrocious time.

Right bottle so it's mainly the care system and kids from unstable homes you'll be sorting then. That should be an easy task and one most people would be in favour of.

Right bottle so it's mainly the care system and kids from unstable homes you'll be sorting then. That should be an easy task and one most people would be in favour of.

Well, good. Why not introduce it in sex ed? How about,

-Don't have kids before you're 28
-Don't have kids with someone you've been with fewer than 4 years
-Allow a 3 year gap between kids
-Don't have more than 2 kids.

-Crucially....don't have kids with more than one person.

And, magically 80% of poverty eliminated.

Bottle, you'd make a dab sex ed teacher. Add in about finances vs costs of children and more about contraception and you'd have it nailed.

I suggest that we attempt to reverse the trend of people having children with partners they don't know very well. This would eliminate a large chunk of children growing up in households where they have little or no access to their fathers

the way to tackle single parent-hood (if you consider it a problem) is to stigmatize the absent father and the non-paying father and the non-taking any fucking responsibility father. Not the mother who finds herself in difficult circumstances and is, at the end of the day, doing the parenting of two people (and vice versa before anyone says it's not always fathers) and has....well, stayed? done her best? is getting on with it? But that's too hard, isn't it? Because all those fathers are also our sons, brothers, uncles, cousins, friends and work colleagues and we buy into the 'she's a money-grabbing slag' rather than recognise that it takes two...You are suggesting women take 100% of the responsibility of preventing conception and 100% of the responsibility of bringing up any children where conception is less than 'perfect' (or 100% of the emotional toil if abortion is the only answer) and if the children struggle as a result, it's 100% the mother's fault.

I have yet to see/hear/experience any kind of negativity towards off the rails children of couples. And there are plenty of them.

Also, insurance protects against the death of a spouse.

Dont think it does! Otherwise there would be a lot fewer widows/ers

Yes bottle you clearly know lots about the care system and kids from unstable backgrounds. That info will certainly balance out the myriad of reasons why as adults some may make less than ideal choices. You do understand people that deliberately choose to get pregnant when unstable financially and in a short relationship have usually been fucked up by society in some way to get to that point? Balanced adults with caring backgrounds and a good education don't wake up one day and think fuck it, why not get pregnant and claim benefits. Unless of course they believe the media and think single mums all get 30k a year and top priority for the best social housing.

Fedup, my post is entirely gender-agnostic. I will be drilling my 5-step advice into my own children (boys).

I have no issue with single parenthood apart from an interest in public policy, and contempt for parents (i.e. fathers) who don't pay for non-resident children.

You do understand people that deliberately choose to get pregnant when unstable financially and in a short relationship have usually been fucked up by society in some way to get to that point?

Which is why the schools should probably step in. Your post just underscores what I've said.

There was a recognised moral panic about single MOTHERS in the early/mid 90s

Thats because it was the mothers getting alll the money and goats. It wasnt the dads collecting the benefits, so no point targetting them eh?

oh right, now single-parenting is the problem of teachers?

If teachers were in a position to turn round the lives of kids from difficult backgrounds, I think it's safe to say they'd be doing it for more pressing reasons than the fact some might get pregnant at an inopportune time.

oh right, now single-parenting is the problem of teachers?

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

I'm not sure why schools would take an interest in sex ed, and at the same time turn a blind eye to the fact that a quarter of these children will go onto be single parents. Given that this is such an accurate predictor of poverty and a lifetime of disadvantage, why do we care so deeply about (for example) preventing herpes?

If teachers were in a position to turn round the lives of kids from difficult backgrounds, I think it's safe to say they'd be doing it for more pressing reasons than the fact some might get pregnant at an inopportune time.

I'd guess that a lot of teachers aren't in a position to say:

-Don't have kids before you're 28
-Don't have kids with someone you've been with fewer than 4 years
-Allow a 3 year gap between kids
-Don't have more than 2 kids.
-Crucially....don't have kids with more than one person.

Because it's not a part of the national curriculum, it might be considered provocative or elitist, it would probably upset some parents, who knows.

Society hates single mothers because a woman with a child and no man is a direct challenge to patriarchy, which is a system that allocates women to all men who want one, though an institution called the "family" through which children are dependent on their mothers, and women on their particular man. The love that women have for their children has historically made them very loathe to disrupt their means of protecting and supporting them. This is an abusers' charter.

Over time women have gained access to money (not as much for the same work, or even fair access to the same work, but some access to money) and this is tolerated up to a point. But a woman who can mother without a man is a visible and direct challenge to the whole idea that women exist to be allocated to men to do as they like with.

I find it sad on this thread that so many are so desperate to draw distinctions between "bad" single mothers who have had too many children, by too many fathers, too quickly, or whatever the criteria are; and "good" single mothers, who started off married and are a bit middle aged and are really not the same. It's like deserving and undeserving poor. Can we not support all single mothers? Firstly, just because we should; but also, because society's primary means of taking good care of children, all of our children, is through their mothers - by taking care of them.

great post magick!

bottlecap I think the education needs to extend to helping girls and young women identify their own low self-esteem and recognising behaviours in men that are excessively controlling or entitled or critical.

NOW I would recognise these behaviours for what they are but as a younger woman with a low self-esteem I didn't think I had the right to walk away (from a successful handsome man who had it all sewn up). He made me feel like I needed to work harder to win his approval all the time. But I thought he was a respectable partner. He had a profession and so on.

Also, the education needs to be given to young men, that it is not ok to go in to a relationship with so many entitlements, forcinng them to acknowledge sexism and casual selfishness.

I knew my well by the time I had children with him, the problem was that I had a low self-esteem. I didn't even recognise that because I was outgoing. I could talk to people. I wasn't shy. I didn't understand these issues. I had no idea my self esteem was so low.

I find it sad on this thread that so many are so desperate to draw distinctions between "bad" single mothers who have had too many children, by too many fathers, too quickly, or whatever the criteria are; and "good" single mothers, who started off married and are a bit middle aged and are really not the same.

Claps loudly.

Yes. I think it's a sort of defence. If they were ever to find hard times and become single parents, they'd fit into the second category and have already said that those types of single mothers are fine so it won't matter.

I find it sad on this thread that so many are so desperate to draw distinctions between "bad" single mothers who have had too many children, by too many fathers, too quickly, or whatever the criteria are; and "good" single mothers, who started off married and are a bit middle aged and are really not the same.

It seems obvious that the 'average' childhood experience for the former group is far more chaotic than the latter.