to ask why society hates single mums?

[maxxytoe]

Just why?
I very rarely see the press mention anything about single mums in a good way , it's always vilifying them for being single , on benefits etc
Even on facebook people I know (who have been raised by single mums may I add ) do status' saying something along the lines of 'the single mums will be out spending the child benefit in town tonight'

There's a guy at my work who got custody of his children and people cant praise him enough and say how he's doing a great job etc
But yet my colleague who is a single mum doesn't get the same ?

What is societies problem with single mums?!

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

Fantasyland, clearly the answer is d) spend some time in heavy penance whilst berating yourself at your obviously poor choice in men.

Maybe we should all just be married off to suitable husbands, chosen by our fathers, when we're 14 or so because we obviously can't be trusted to choose wisely for ourselves.

[nicoleshitzinger]

Bottlecap - marriage may well be archaic, but it's still a pretty popular and aspirational choice, hence the recent change to the law to allow same sex marriage in developed countries. :-)

[nicoleshitzinger]

"Maybe we should all just be married off to suitable husbands, chosen by our fathers, when we're 14 or so because we obviously can't be trusted to choose wisely for ourselves."

I think a lot of people are terrible at choosing partners for themselves, as evidenced by the hideous stories of arsehole dp's and dh's on mumsnet.

I'd love to match-make for my children/sister/friends.

[ghostyslovesheep]

so hang on Frank you are basing this on YOUR experiences but mine and other peoples experiences aren't relevant - is that because we have wombs?

you still haven't addressed widows - are they breaking up society as well

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Well we know why frank hates them but the blustery woman that used to rant a lot at me hated them because she thought all of them, every single one of them wanted to run off with her husband

[Lurkedforever1]

fantasy
a) only if the child is young and healthy enough to fit in well with a naice married couple. Otherwise it's the care system, which offers the wonderful opportunity of costing the taxpayer far more than a single mum who didn't work till the child was 18. Whilst also giving your child the worst start in life. That will teach you.
B) Only if you marry him immediately and don't have more children, or ever split up and he must only die young if he has life insurance, otherwise it will just prove the point that single mums make bad choices.
No use moaning now, we all know with a bit more planning you could have predicted 12yrs in future.

I don't fully buy into the 2 parents is ideal either tbh. Two loving involved parents on the same parenting page maybe. But it's not as though every married couple has that. Two beautiful, high iq, sport champ, high achieving, patient, loving, rich, involved, caring, aspirational, full of common sense and parenting skills, able to meet every desire and need parents would be pretty idealic too. But as I've never yet met the perfect parent, and doubt they even exist, I don't see why missing the 2 part is soooo not the ideal. My dd is a lot happier and more balanced than a good few of the naice married couples are I know. One good loving parent beats a pair of muppets everytime.

[WhatifIdid]

One good loving parent beats a pair of muppets everytime.

Yep!

[frankbough]

I don't actually hate anybody, stats quite clearly show that co habitation is quite likely to lead to single parenthood.. Which means in the long term people are inadvertently setting themselves up for single parent hood..

Which of course means more tax payers money will have to support these families, which also means, those that have the statistical misfortune to suffer from divorce or end up a widower will not be able to receive the support they deserve..

I don't hate women, what I dislike are those people who due to life experiences create there own negative reality especially concerning men, your marinating in your victimhood and anger, making almost anyone who crosses your path pay for your disappointment. (Especially men.)

This thought process seems into every aspect of your lives and will become a self fulfilling prophecy and will ultimately stop you from having a loving relationship, you'll also pass this negativity onto your children..

Using words like NAICE to describe marriage, again attaching a negative sarcastic, caustic connotation with what for some is a wonderful safe environment in which to raise a family..

The hard shell act fools no one, who the hell wants to live a life that careers from self pity and self righteous bullying..

Cue anger and swearing from certain posters...

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

I would like to ask what your purpose is on this website, Frank?

Because from what I can see you're here to have a go at single mothers, blame them for their partners leaving, blame them for claiming benefits to care for their children, blame them for being angry at their exe's, etc.

The ethos of this site is 'supporting parents'. You clearly don't believe in supporting single mothers. You clearly believe we brought it on ourselves and don't deserve any support.

So why are you here?

[UrbaneFox]

Good question lilac.

I am a single parent who gave her children the best chances by leaving an abusive angry man. I was on benefits for a while, as my earning potential wasn't enough to run a household and pay for childcare. Now though, I work. My children are happy and doing well at school. Even their father, who was angry when I left isn't posting so bitterly and judgementally on parenting sites designed to support parents. It is obvious that though the rest of us (and this includes single parents of course) live and learn, Frank is of the train of thought that encourages women to blame themselves for everything.

[UrbaneFox]

"Which of course means more tax payers money will have to support these families, which also means, those that have the statistical misfortune to suffer from divorce or end up a widower will not be able to receive the support they deserve.."

how is this true? widows and divorc????s will be eligible for the same benefits. It will be means tested. Not every single parent who was unmarried is broke and not every married mother has access to funds to support a family. So obviously it is better that the benefits are decided on the basis of eligibility, not on the moral grounds you suggest, ie, widows and divorcees deserve the help more!

Given that one in three marriages end in divorce anyway, you're being ridiculous! YOu only have to read the threads on here to realise that most married women fear being single more than they fear being taken advantage of (wrt housework, childcare). Most women will push water uphill for about five years before they give up.

[UrbaneFox]

one more thing

Paying taxes doesn't give a person more human rights. Part of the reason my was such a dreadful man to try and raise children with was because he too believed that money equalled more rights, wealth equalled more power. In life and in a relationship.

I wonder if your wife is happy. And if she's not happy, would you even care.

[UrbaneFox]

The values that I've been able to instil in my children as a single parent, free from his cynicism, his entitlement, his selfishness and his casual sexism have been much better. The values I wanted to give my children would have been impossible with my sexist entitled x sneering in the background.

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

Indeed, Urbane.

Does Frank believe single mothers who were left by their partners (and therefore deserve nothing) are all jobless? I also work and my hours have now gone up to 21 a week so I'm back on the tax ladder, as it were. My three children are all very academic and doing exceptionally well at school. Like Urbane I've seen a change in them (for the better) since their Dad left and they've gone to different schools in a new part of the country.

Also, does Frank also genuinely believe that all single mothers who were left by their partner remain single and bitter for the rest of their lives? Does he believe only widows and divorcees go on to have further, loving, satisfying relationships? What nonsense. If that were the case we wouldn't have so many blended families where the mother was previously with a complete shit of a co-habitee.

I'm not bitter, believe it or not. I don't hate men. I've still got two sons, a Dad, two brothers and a BIL that I love to pieces. One crap ex does not make all men crap. I'm happy with just me and the kids at the moment (although they see their Dad frequently) but I'd quite like a partner in the future. I don't see myself as unable to hold down future relationships because of one bad one.

But really, why are we even taking Frank seriously. He's clearly only here for a wind up anyway.

[Lurkedforever1]

Do you think frank is perhaps the editor of the daily mail?

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

I was going to say 'no' because he doesn't know the difference between 'you're' and 'your' but thinking about his 'evidence' to back up his claims The Mail would bloody love him, wouldn't they?

He certainly reads it.

[UrbaneFox]

Yes Lilac! One of my moments of lucidity (I had a few!) when I was with my x was when a letter came through the door and it was addressed to 74 our Road instead of 74 our Avenue. My x, in front of the children, was going to chuck it in the bin. I said 'no!'. I went for short walk with the baby and delivered it to the people at 74 Our Road (ykwim!) who invited us in for a cup of tea and a slice of coffee and walnut cake. I must have been feeling quite lonely I think!! With my respectable handsome audi-driving actuary partner on a lovely avenue in a lovely house. So, so lonely. It really disturbed me that he wouldn't put himself out of his way one inch to do something nice. Like you, my dad, brother, cousins, my friends' husbands are all good men which made me all the more certain I had to leave. I made a mistake and I learnt from it. frank's wife will be on here saying the same in a year

[UrbaneFox]

ps, the daily mail staff just cut and paste all of their articles from American media now! Even if the article is about the Beckhams, they will say traveled and jewelry and organized. So, if Frank can cut and paste, he should apply for a job there!

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

Yes, I think the good men in your life definitely make the had one' stand out even more.

I pity Frank's wife (if there is one) but I don't know what's worse. Her staying with him or her leaving and some other poor soul having him inflicted on her.

[UrbaneFox]

Yes, and I'd never really come up against the demonstration of such selfishness and entitlement before. I think I carried on giving my x the benefit of the doubt long after he deserved it, partly because I simply couldn't believe that a man could behave so badly. Does that sound like bitterness, or being a ''man-hater'' ??!

I pity Frank's wife too.

[frankbough]

Wow.. Well at least you got to meet the neighbours and have some nice walnut cake.. And you've also managed to railroad the thread to talk about yourself, because of course YOU or I is what's important..
Look up Plato??s Symposium: the love of one??s own.

[Lurkedforever1]

frank 'the love of ones own'. Hilarious. Why don't you look up the meaning of the phrase 'its better to stay quiet and risk looking a fool, than open your mouth and confirm it'.
You see your problem is daily fail frank that you can get horse and hound and a shooting mag on subscription weekly to impress the post man, and buy Fortnum and mason marmalade to be delivered in a logo'd van, but no matter how much you try and put single parents down in a misguided attempt to prove you belong, you just aren't quite pulling off the whole improved social status thing are you?

[UrbaneFox]

The love of one's own?! no, that was my X. And so what if I'm talking about myself. My story is very, very, very typical. The point I'm making which you are unable to absorb is that 'my' story is about more than just me.

And yet, you can't acknowledge that it's valid. Your only perspective, no matter what you're told, no matter what you read is the same as it always was, 'no, single parents bad'. You're the one who is all about 'self'. A very flawed self at that.

[UrbaneFox]

And perhaps the reason Frank isn't comfortable with people sharing typical and relevant personal stories on a thread about single parents is because it makes it slightly harder (only slightly, he still manages it very well) for him to pigeon-hole single parents. Everybody who has told a story here speaks for thousands of others. Far easier to close his ears to people's stories. And carry on believing that divorced parents and widows deserve help and other single parents do not. What a thoroughly unpleasant person. It's laughable! Leave me alone to be a bigot! If you tell me a personal story which flies in the face of my beliefs, I will patronise you and type the word plato. Hilarious.