migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

What do you see as the reason for all those people on waiting lists, LilMiss? Are we short of houses, short of space to build them, short of people to build them, are we broke?

(To save you time, the answer to all the above is No.)

It's time to stop whining about giving other people a slice of an ever-shrinking cake - and start asking for the rest of the cake back!

Refugees will not take ANY money away from you.

Taking this to a bit of a straw man level, Sunshine. I never advocated for everyone to take in refugees. I said that some people have offered.

JuJu you are also being ridiculous. Helping others doesn't have to mean that you risk your own (and your family's) safety and security. That would just be stupid and if everybody did that then the whole human race would be in a mess. You've got to have your own basics in place before you can help others. Is that what the fear is? That by helping these people in this situation, it's going to disrupt the safety and security of our own people? I mean it would make the hysteria more understandable but I'm afraid I just don't think that it's that big of a risk to us. Most individuals but also countries as a whole can offer help without attracting risk. Not everybody can and if it is a risk then they shouldn't have to. I do think it's good that Britain is helping in different ways but I wish it had been made clearer - saying we don't have space for immigrants but we are contributing to the boat rescue etc. I don't know if the figures add up but it is better than I originally thought. I do wish the media would stop printing such negative stuff, though.

Snow, I had heard of these tragedies as well. They are also comparable to the Holocaust or worse. It's hard - you do want to help everybody who needs it. Yes it's true that most people's attention is on refugees from these particular areas at the moment because that is what is gaining attention in the media. For me it's about proximity and possibility - when people are coming over in droves putting themselves at such great risk then yes we (Europe or other countries as a whole, not just UK) have a human moral duty to help with their immediate needs of shelter, food and water. As said above, it would be unwise to put ourselves in danger attempting some kind of rescue mission unless it's safe to do so. I'm not sure exactly what the situation is in Africa but it seems that's not where most of the refugees are coming from at the moment? Is that because they can't escape or because they want to stay where they are?

Snowbells Syria is big news because it is the worst refugee crisis since World War 2.

I don't see the point in the whataboutery you are engaging in. Are you really saying that unless we can help everyone, we should help no one?

Besides which there have been asylum seekers from conflicts in Africa allowed to settle here, in considerably larger numbers then the 216 Syrian families allowed to stay so far. Are you really claiming there are no African refugees in the UK?

We also recently sent over substantial assistance to combat the Ebola outbreak.

where do you get this from then garrick? yes we are short of houses, unless you care to give yours up. yes we are short of most so what on earth are you on?

Well Garrick they already have because if we had a smaller foreign aid budget ans wasn't handing over another £100m we could have been using that money to fund cancer treatments or something else. Someone said one budget doesn't affect the other but it does because if we didn't have x amount of foreign aid budget that money could be spent elsewhere whether it was to fund the NHS, housing etc.

For the record, it would cost us £5 a month each to support 300,000 refugees for as long as it takes them to get on their feet here.

Is that what we're so terrified of losing? A fiver a month?

(Before you ask, I'm already paying £5 a month and I am very poor. It means doing without one chicken a month. It's worth it, isn't it?)

Oh, I can't be doing with thick people. I see why it's so easy for the government to lie to you.

A fiver a month.

UnderTheGreenwoodTree

In another thread, someone pointed out that the Kurdi family had already been in Turkey for THREE years. The father had a job, apparently. Presumably, they also had a home. The younger son probably didn't even remember living in Syria. They were not fleeing a war-torn country. They were safe in Turkey. So it isn't safety they wanted, but a better life.

A lot of people in other poor countries (much poorer than Turkey) want a better life. They achieve this through hard work, education, and yes, often they move to a first world country, but they fly in legally.

Mind you - Turkey really can't be that bad. I know people originally from Turkey. They worked in London for a while, had plush jobs... and now live in Turkey again. I'm linked to them on FB, so can see what's going on in their lives. Would they have moved there with young kids, if it wasn't safe?

With regards to the medication cuts, it would seem that greedy pharmaceutical companies should share some of the blame:
www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/03/life-extending-cancer-drugs-to-be-axed-by-nhs

A refugee in Turkey isn't likely to be getting "plush" jobs, or indeed any job at all, as they're competing with hundreds of thousands of other people for whatever black market work is available.

When I read ignorant posts such as those of JuJuMun69, I genuinely wonder if s/he has ever heard of colonialism.

This is excellent:

Trying to follow what is going on in Syria and why? This comic will get you there in 5 minutes

£5 a year - dream on where are you getting your stats from? The guardian did a report recently stating that since 1999 it has cost us £150m a year to house refugees. Its not a one off cost we carry the cost for years.

JuJuMun69 I have news for you. This government is taking the piss out of you, and you are letting them do it.

There is not a shortage of housing because there are too many migrants / asylum seekers.

There is a shortage of housing because this government wants there to be.

They are taking the piss out of people like you. They are taking money off people in real need - via the bedroom tax, benefits cap, by taking away benefits from genuinely disabled people, by closing services and forcing children to grow up in poverty, and they are giving it to the bankers and the corporations.

They are greedy as fuck and they are milking us for all they can get.

They want you to think that you are short because there's not enough to go round. But the real reason is you are short because they have robbed our money and given it to the bankers and corporations.

It suits them very well for you to point the finger at migrants and asylum seekers, because really you should be pointing your finger at them! They are robbing you and you are blaming the wrong people!

I just find it crazy how pre-election there were plenty of threads bemoaning cuts to benefits, cuts to the NHS, large classroom sizes etc and then the regular threads you see about all these topics anyway yet we are happy to put even more of a strain on all of these by taking in thousands of people. I am not saying we shouldn't help but it has been realistic and what we can cope with.

Pontipines Apparently, he did have a job. If you are uneducated, you can't expect a "plush" job straightaway. But you work hard to provide your family a decent living. Give your children an education. Your children will then hopefully fare better, and if they continue that path, your grandchildren could be doing very, very well.

Both mine and my husband's family followed the above pattern. Our families improved their fortunes with each generation, but it still often boils down to those people who decades decided to just work hard and take no shortcuts.

One of the first things this government did when they got into power was remove the requirement for property developers to include a percentage of affordable housing in any new developments.

That didn't cost the tax payer anything, but it provided affordable homes for people. But the government cared more about letting those companies make a bit more profit than they did about helping ordinary people live decent lives.

Please, please don't believe their lies about migrants being a threat to your homes or jobs. The government are the real threat on that front.

We are one of the richest countries in the world, of course we can help, if we want to. (And thankfully most of us do, I think).

Snowbells

I don't think you can compare Turkish nationals with plush jobs in London to Syrian Kurdish refugees there - Turkey has a history of displacing Kurds itself, and does not treat them well. So it depends what your definition of 'safe' is, and why you would want to demonise people for trying get a better, safer, stabler life for their children.

Yes and there are over 300 million working people in the UK all paying taxes. So that's 50 pence each. Per year.

Gee, I'm sure I'll miss that fifty pence!

Back to the OP - YABU! What kind of question is that anyway?!

If you want to wonder how it will work out, just look around you (assuming you are in the UK). We live in a multicultural society already, and are all the stronger for it.

Taking in a few more people will just add to the mix.

Migrants generally work hard and pay into the system, their taxes pay our old folk's pensions.

Oh, I do know one change that might happen.

The crime rate could go down.

Studies in the US recently have shown that the overall crime rate goes down in neighbourhoods with lots of immigrants.

There is plenty of empty housing in this country, including in London. Hundreds of thousands of homes, and rising, in fact. But dear Boris and his Bullington chums prioritise the investment needs of the global super rich and criminals, over the housing needs of ordinary people. I'm amazed that people aren't marching in the streets in protest at the way in which the government has sold us down the river to corporations and the global elite. I guess they are too busy swallowing the lies that Cameron and Osborne are feeding them.

Where r u getting ur stats frim because the may 2015 government report states there are 30 million ppl in employment. I doubt 100m ppl suddenly started working between May and now otherwise that kinda news would have been across the neW's everywhere

And apparently I'm the thick one

UnderTheGreenwoodTree Not demonizing them. Just thinking there are better ways of improving your life than risking the life of those you love. There were reports of people dying trying to cross the Med. Things would have to be really bad for me to want to move across that way (i.e. zombie apocalypse).