migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

This just came up in my feed on Facebook which was quite interesting

onlysaying, your post has been deleted by Mumsnet.

The facts that you can read are the man's own account of what has happened to him. It's your business if you want to believe him - but it very much suits your rhetoric to not believe him, doesn't it? Disbelieving people's own accounts of atrocities they have suffered is a way of belittling people, and an excuse for inaction.

There's a fair amount of evidence supporting his story - after all, the man has missing teeth. His family is dead, he has missing teeth, Kobane is a pile of rubble. This is a man who had a business, a family and a house - and it's gone now.

Do think picking holes in a traumatised man's account of what happened to him somehow makes the atrocities happening in Syria not true?

onlysaying, your post has been deleted by Mumsnet what post was deleted?

Jesus christ, because you ask for some facts on a story, everyone goes hysterical. I have done nothing wrong here...accept ask for facts on a story, which not one person can provide. Neither can you, by the looks of it - you simply just repeat someone else's y account on mumsnet, like it's gospel.

do you realise how silly you all look? - all quoting what one poster said, but unable to provide any external verification whatsever.

LunchpackOfNotreDame - funny! :)

Onlysaying I think the biggest problem with you is that you seem to find this whole thing funny.

onlysaying do you only believe things if you stood in the room and witnessed it? Would you have needed to be at Auschwitz actually witnessing the horrors in real time to believe them?

As you are only too well aware it is only after the event and once some semblance of order and peace is in place that all the evidence of what has happened is disseminated.

Seems the poster onlysaying is the type of person who takes the attitude of not helping unless someone else helps first, which invariably means no-one does anything.

All these, frankly, pathetic excuses, obfuscation and but, but, but, from posters is simply a means of hiding behind the fact that do not want to help and do not care one way or another about the lives of the refugees. Ignorance, xenophobia and plain old selfishness.

All these, frankly, pathetic excuses, obfuscation and but, but, but, from posters is simply a means of hiding behind the fact that do not want to help and do not care one way or another about the lives of the refugees.

Yes. Why can't people say: actually, I just don't want to help. I don't like the look of these people, I don't like Muslims or slightly brown people and I don't really give a shiny shit about them. I don't want to look at one of them in my town when I go about my privileged daily existence. Whatever it is, just come out and say it. That would be far more honest than all the straw men and obfuscation.

I have done nothing wrong here.

You think? Really, look deep within that v shrivelled brain of yours, and ask yourself if finding the refugee crisis -"funny! "- is a reasonable, or decent thing to do.

Also, ask yourself if demanding "proof" of this man's story is a reasonable thing to do. Do you think Assad and ISIL hand out certificates after they've tortured you?

The UK pays more than any natino except the US on earth to help displaced people and we should be hugely congratulated

I'm pretty sure the rest of Europe has a different take on this.

get this into your head...I simply asked for clarification on a story, because I deal in facts. The problem is that stories like this are susceptible to chinese whispers and rumour...and often those rumours prove to be untrue.

Of course this was a tragedy. No-one could see small children drown and not be totally moved...its horrible.

But its when people start making up things to suit agendas, that I question them. I strongly suspect, unless someone proves me wrong, that was was a dramatic twist that was added, based on nothing but the need to dramatise the mans story further. I called some people here out on it and they went berserk, calling me names like 'utter cunt' (nice) because I called them out.

and yes, you are right, I do not want the doors to europe flung open for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with saying that. In amongst the genuine people fleeing a real war, I can tell you that a considerable percentage will be total chancers, trying to get into europe for other reasons...and probably many for more sinister reasons.

so its about being fair...its not about welcoming every single person who wants to come here..only people fleeing geniune persecution. Frankly i see no evidence that this man was fleeing imminent danger in Turkey, I think it was solely an opportunistic move...and sadly he cost the life of his children and wife. (although of course his sister says it was soley europes fault they died). So I'm somehow responsible according to her

onlysaying, the facts of this particular case are irrelevant to the fact that however Britain decides to deal with refugees there will be a cost.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and singing la la la will not make them go away.

There is a cost to leaving the rest of Europe to deal with the problem.

You "strongly suspect"? Based on what? Actual facts or things you've read in the Mail and the Express? You make posts laughing at a serious humanitarian crisis then expect people to engage with you on a serious level.

I can only imagine that MNHQ are allowing this thread to chunder on because someone will be needing to fill in their spreadsheet - my "im not racist but" column is filling up nicely

So you want to be fair - you have a room, its full of people - 50% of those people are genuine refugees. 30% are economic migrants 10% are taking the piss and 10% are potential terrorists. (disclaimer, have toltally pulled these numbers from the sky) The room is going to fill will gas in an hours time, anyone in the room WILL die. You don't know who is who?

What are you going to do?

I know what i'd do....

So I'm somehow responsible according to her

Yeah - you're the real victim here aren't you. Aw, poor you.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that you have not found your first experience of Mumsnet to be to your satisfaction. If you haven't already come from there, I suggest that you try out the Britain First or ENL webpages. There will be many people there on your wavelength and you can enjoy your "evidence"- based (lol) discussions with them.

I think it is shameful that after seeing this poor drowned boy that people are saying fling open the doors. I think it is shameful that people could only see this after being presented with the stark image of a dead child that allowed them to have some feelings about this and see the migrants / refugees as actual human people.

Would you have needed to be at Auschwitz actually witnessing the horrors in real time to believe them?
It's a sad fact that some people didn't believe it then and even sadder that some don't believe it now.

The sister is traumatised and lashing out, the real cause for the refugees is civil war and ISIL. However, IMO Europe has failed to act sufficiently to the crisis - people have been drowning in the Med for months and months. We have just let this happen.

Nobody is suggesting that the UK can have the whole of Syria over, but we can take some, we can take more. The fact that you, onlysaying, are not too fond of sharing with others in dire need, is not something that bothers me unduly.

I honestly hope I don't know any of you racist, ignorant posters in real life. Though it shows why ukip did so well in some areas. Congratulations on being born British, have a pissing blue peter badge, aren't you lucky.

onlysaying - so its about being fair...its not about welcoming every single person who wants to come here..only people fleeing geniune persecution.

I'm going to print this in capitals in the hope that you and the other posters who keep on trotting out a variation on 'letting every single person in the entire whole world in' line might actually see it, read it, and cognitively digest it, are you ready:

NO-ONE IS SAYING THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO WANTS TO COME TO THE UK WILL OR SHOULD BE ADMITTED.

Okay, have we got that?

Now the bit about Aylan's father being a mere opportunist:

Mr. Kurdi was originally from Kobane, but he was living and working as a barber in Damascus in 2012, he and his family left Damascus and headed for Aleppo when clashes broke out there they fled to Turkey, they returned to Kobane at the beginning of this year after the town was retaken from IS, in June IS resumed attacks on the town and Mr Kurdi and his family went back to Turkey, they had been in Bodrum for a month before attempting the journey to Greece. As detailed by Mustafi Ebdi, a journalist in Kobane.

Now, I have no idea why he fled Damascus initially, however, there have been numerous documented instances of abuse, torture and murder being carried out by agents of the Assad regime, if you are not 'for' them then you are 'against' them and are treated accordingly. For him to have gone to Aleppo indicates he was not a supporter of the Assad regime.

I equally have no idea of the circumstances he and his family were living in in Turkey and neither do you, however, he chose to leave Turkey and return to a town which is little more than a pile of rubble in order to rebuild his life there so I'm guessing that for whatever reason he wasn't comfortable remaining in Turkey.

Knowing what horrors IS bring with them it is hardly surprising he left Kobane when IS were at the gates. Maybe, he thought that instead of just languishing in Turkey until the civil war ends he would try to finally get his wife and family somewhere he could settle and start again.

Not a mere opportunist in my book.

Now, 'genuine persecution' - would you like to provide a list so that the UK Immigration Services/Home Office/Government can make absolutely sure they tick off all the 'genuine' reasons and proof thereof before they even consider admitting people in? Oh wait, they do that already.

I think you and all the others panicking about being taken over by marauding hordes of refugees with evil or opportunistic intent determined on storming the citadel of the UK and taking over need to calm the hell down.

Pipbin It's a sad fact that some people didn't believe it then and even sadder that some don't believe it now. How true, I did wonder if we had an HD amongst us.

Ehhmmm its not about being racist. Its about staying out of their business in the first place. Its about going through the right channels.

The world is a very big place.

England is a tiny Island.

JuJu and the Syrian refugees that the Government is planning on bringing to the UK from the camps on the borders of Syria will be going through the right channels.

So if we all agree that NOT EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD WHO WANTS TO COME TO THE UK WILL BE ADMITTED then what you're saying is that at some point, a line is drawn, and no more are admitted?

What then becomes of the world's displaced masses? Sod off we're full? What happens to compassion and humanity at that point?

Well said emotion.