migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

We all live on the same planet and like it or not we cannot avoid being in each other's business.

Personally speaking I believe in Auschwitz, and I believe that similar horrors are playing out in war torn nations across the world at present. I don't judge anybody escaping from war if they can, it's what anybody would do.

But I feel it's a straw man argument to say these little boys died fleeing war and that more humanity from us could have prevented it because a) they were not fleeing a war torn country and b) I haven't heard any workable plan for stopping people who want to from embarking on extremely risky journeys to get to their ultimate chosen country.

What exactly was lacking from us, that allowed criminals to put these people in a substandard boat?

I don't know where or how all this will end apart from badly.

But from personal experience of living close by to Kurdish/Syrian refugees in Germany wondering if I am going to end up outing myself these people are genuinely on their knees. There have been (that I am aware of) no surges in crime or antisocial behaviour. On the whole these people seem to want to get on with their situation and the new start they have been given.
I accept that there may be limits on what the UK can do in terms of accepting large numbers of refugees but I do think that the UK and the USA and the west as a whole have some level of duty of care on humanitarian terms.

As for the racism, nimbyistic attitudes displayed by some I am deeply saddened by the lack of humanity and unwillingness to offer people with nothing a little hope.

You have to be realistic Morris. Not sure why you have to do capitals there :/

This is not the answer though. Its very far from it.

Too late for staying out of their business as the western governments have been up to their belly buttons in the Middle East for decades both publicly and secretly. So I guess it may be a little late to say it is none of our business, we will never know how things would have turned out in the Middle East without western intervention.

Oh crikey we're back to "Britain is a tiny island"... I think this thread has gone full circle now.

The "we can't help them all" argument is mystifying to me. We help a share of them.

It's also a very easy (and conscience-salving) argument to say they were safe in Turkey - therefore they weren't actually, strictly, to the letter blah blah, fleeing war.

But it's widely reported that life in the refugee camps is very, very difficult - conditions are dire and unbearable in some.

From Anmesty International:

More than 1 million Syrian refugees who have flocked to Turkey to escape fighting at home are struggling to survive on their own, with government-run refugee camps operating at full capacity, according to a report by Amnesty International.

If you were in this situation, and had a sister in Canada - are you honestly saying, hand on heart, that in you wouldn't have tried to get your family to Canada to join your sister? Sheer desperation is what it is.

I get that we have a duty to help a share of them, and I support the gvt in doing so.

But we can't help more than a small fraction of the world's desperate and needy people.

So at some point, we are saying no. At some point, humanity and empathy become mere words and we have to turn away many thousands of people in need. And we continue in our relatively privileged lives. In this sense, the only difference between the compassionate and the horrible is numbers.

Btw I wrote one sentence in capitals in direct answer to somebody else who did so.

The idea seems to be that the further away you are geographically from a problem the more you should have a right to ignore it.

As a long term foreign policy that doesn't really work.

I suppose the point is that you don't use xenophobic, racist and twattish arguments for not helping them - as has been rife on this thread. You don't demonise and dehumanise the refugees, call them a swarm, and blame them for taking desperate measures to escape as an excuse to do nothing, as I believe, has been happening right up that photo hit the papers.

If Britain is too small, what do we do - pay poorer countries to take in refugees?

Declaring Britain full (how?) won't make the problem go away.

Morris in respect of your where is the cut-off point, we are full, etc., post.

Not everyone in the world wants to come to the UK, either now or in the future. The refugees moving across Europe at the moment are in the main heading for Germany and Sweden.

Not everyone who applies to enter the UK will be admitted either now or in the future as they will not fulfill the legal criteria, so there is already a line drawn.

I do think we. as in The West, Europe, Rest of the World, UN, etc., do bear a responsibility in respect of the most recent crisis. For too long we have looked away hoping it would somehow solve itself, sent some money to salve our consciences and just washed our hands of it probably because it is too difficult to confront and actually do the hard graft to sort it out.

England is a tiny Island. (sic)

I assume all the people who declare that England is a tiny island, as well not understanding that England is not an island, or that Britain is full, haven't had children, or at least no more than two.
Because if it's that full you can't be adding to the population simply because you fancy the idea of having a baby.

We do more than almost any other nation on the planet.

My biggest concern today is that we might start more bombing in the Middle East. The would be a huge mistake. Whether we take 20k or 10k refugees is neither here nor there compared with that.

Well exactly! Britain is full yeah ok so these posters saying so must be child free and frown apon their peers having children.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that you have not found your first experience of Mumsnet to be to your satisfaction

well true, its not often I'm called an 'utter cunt' in the first day of joining a forum, but I guess 'JeffreysMummyisCross' lashed out at me in her humiliation.

I had dispelled the totally unsubstantiated story some of you were spouting, about the mans teeth being pulled in a torture session....realising you couldn't back up this fanciful story...it was easier to lash out at me with abusive names, in your embarrassment at being exposed as a niave fool who believes everything they are told by their peers on here .

Actually, I alway find it interesting how the lefty, politically correct amongst us, love to name call, as a form of debating. Everyone who has a different viewpoint is always a 'racist', a 'homophobe', a 'redneck'..etc etc.

You do love the old name calling, when someone doesn't share your viewpoint. always find that interesting and rather pathetic

Don't judge mumsnet on this thread. This emotive issue of the little boy has moved the nation like the Princess Diana story. It is the most wonderful media manipulation of the national mood of feeling I have seen in a long time. It won't change the fundamentals - except allow a tiny amount of extra refugees to come here - but the Government will have to make the manipulated Britains who are crying into their pillows because a father chose to risk his children's lives from the safety of Turkey a little happier with some token suggestion of extra places and will instead sensible continue with its policy of aid where it's needed.

JanetBlyton - thankful to see not everyone on here is a raging lunatic. Be expected to be called a racist, I have no doubt. Afterall, you have a different viewpoint and that can only mean one thing - you must be a racist ;)

get a heart janet, you seem to have misplaced your compassion.

There's a phrase involving a pot and a kettle that seems to be springing to mind after that post, Janet. I'm not sure the people talking about britain being full and that we do more than any other nation should be accusing others of being manipulated by the media.

How exactly would you expect this man be able to back up his story? Apart from him having no teeth of course...What proof do you need? There's not much he can do apart from tell you what happened, if you refuse to believe it because it doesn't fit your agenda then that's up to you.

Just wanted to say this is my favourite line on Mumsnet ever:

"Why not just own your attitudes? Just come out with it and say - I don't like these people, I don't like their religion, their skin colour, whatever, and I don't want them in this country. Don't try to twist their narrative to try to pretend that you aren't a racist, Islamophobic twat."

Well done jeff. Couldn't have said it better myself.

And if he's such an opportunist, don't you think he'd continue to try to seek asylum after this? Rather than go back to Syria and choose to fight as he no longer has a family to save?

Personally speaking I believe in Auschwitz

So do I as I have an elderly relative who still has the tattoo of that God forsaken place. I have been back to visit them and heard the horrific account of many who survived. It is completely beyond my comprehension why anyone would deny it happened.