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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

999 replies

lovelyconverse123 · 04/09/2015 20:27

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

OP posts:
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emotionsecho · 05/09/2015 13:21

Yes, LEM I agree we should be taking people direct from the camps on the borders of Syria, which is what I think the government are proposing to do, but we should have done this before.

I personally think the UN have been woeful in this, much like they were in the Rwanda Genocide, they could and should do much more.

Noomflah · 05/09/2015 13:22

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emotionsecho · 05/09/2015 13:32

There is so much wrong with that statement Noomflah I don't know where to start but even if I posted indisputable facts demolishing your idiotic statements you wouldn't listen or hear because you are so close minded in your own ideology, no doubt you also fail to see the irony in that.

Lemonfizzypop · 05/09/2015 13:36

Ugh noomflah you are a repugnant ignorant racist.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 05/09/2015 13:36

They are people not a swarm.

TheoriginalLEM · 05/09/2015 13:37

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Noomflah · 05/09/2015 13:40

Do you deny FGM and widespread cousin marriage with horrible birth defects were not present in our country 50 years ago but they are today. This is the truth, it's not racist. People need to abandon these traditions to live in a truly free and peaceful society and integrate without abuse and damage to future generations.

emotionsecho · 05/09/2015 13:49

Where is FGM most prevalent Noomflah? I'll give you a clue it is NOT Syria.

sleepyelectricsheep · 05/09/2015 13:52

Noomflah, I'm curious, where do you get your news / information about these things from?

MaddyinaPaddy · 05/09/2015 13:56

Could people just debate like adults ,without resorting to swearing at, mocking or throwing personal insults at posters whose opinions you don't agree with.It spoils the debate for those of us who are interested in debating the actual issues.

zeezeek · 05/09/2015 13:57

My maternal grandmother was a German Jew. She was from a highly educated, wealthy and respected family. None of that mattered to the Nazis and none of her family's power and influence were able to save them from the concentration camp. My grandmother and her brother were hidden with friends and then smuggled out and somehow managed to get to England. Another 24 hours and they would have been caught. Once in England they had nothing but the clothes on their backs and never saw any of their family or their family's belongings again. After the war my Uncle returned to Germany and my grandmother stayed here (marrying into the aristocracy so obviously trying to spread her evil foreign-ness into the establishment!). After the wall went up we lost my Uncle again and, unfortunately, his unpopular political beliefs of freedom of speech attracted the attention of the Stasi. He was arrested and, like many others, disappeared.

My husband is also an emigrant, however, he chose to leave his native country - Sweden, to come here to work just because he fancied a change. He's been here nearly 30 years now and has never encountered any prejudice, unlike my Grandmother, who had her eligibility to be in the country questioned on an almost daily basis.

Odd, isn't it, how the so-called economic migrant (in the loosest sense of the definition although scandinavian countries are bloody expensive) gets better treated than the refugee who had to flee to save her life.

emotionsecho · 05/09/2015 13:57

Oh just for balance Noomflah widespread cousin marriage has been prevalent in Europe amongst the so called indigenous population for centuries, it is only relatively recently it has declined. Look at any family tree and you will see that as recently as the 1940's cousins marrying cousins was commonplace.

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 05/09/2015 14:01

Some of the refugees may well be uneducated, but plenty are educated, and have left or been displaced because of war and persecution. These are people who have had their houses bombed, their family members murdered, livelihoods taken away, schools closed. Their lives are in danger - have you seen what's going on in Syria at all?

This isn't about religion or politics anymore, it's about humanity.

And, Noomfiah, if you think the posts you are writing aren't both racist and ignorant, as well as inhumane - then you need to broaden your own education.

emotionsecho · 05/09/2015 14:06

Maddy there are a rump of posters on this thread who are not the slightest bit interested in engaging in a sensible adult debate about the issues they only want to spout dangerous ideology about Muslims taking over the country and subjugating us all into an Islamic State.

Facts have been pointed out ad naseum but certain posters are so close minded they refuse point blank to listen or hear, they are so blinkered in the beliefs they espouse.

CoteDAzur · 05/09/2015 14:08

"I would be more inclined to let them all in if they were Christian yes and I am not ashamed of that. It is not racist to say so, but it reflects a shared cultural heritage."

What "cultural heritage" can you possibly have in common with a Syrian? Hmm

Just say you are a bigot and be done with it. HTH.

MaddyinaPaddy · 05/09/2015 14:10

Just a couple ofthings

  1. Given there are 20,000 people on the housing waiting list, where are they going to live.I have heard that councils will place them in 'hard to let' housing.Now housing is 'hard to let' for a reason.If these places are not fit for human habitation, the council will be sued.
  2. It is likely that a large number of these people will be damaged not just physically but also psychologically by what they have been through.This my well cause lot of social problems and expense.
PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 05/09/2015 14:10

Odd, isn't it, how the so-called economic migrant (in the loosest sense of the definition although scandinavian countries are bloody expensive) gets better treated than the refugee who had to flee to save her life

Zee in RL a few times I have noticed huge difference in friend/family wanting to stay somewhere a few days, because bathroom being re done - or kitchen to the person whose relationship has broken down and needs somewhere to stay.

always more in favour of bathroom person.
its just human nature.

the aristocracy seemed to have welcomed your grandmother though?

Moreshabbythanchic · 05/09/2015 14:11

Maddy please note it is the pro immigration team who are resorting to name calling and insulting anyone who disagrees with their blinkered views, how can you have a debate with people like that.

Only time will tell how this all pans out, we will see.

sleepyelectricsheep · 05/09/2015 14:11

My friend just posted this quote on Facebook ...

"Can we not just swap a few hundred thousand of the useless thickhead whiny fuckers who were born here for an equal number of refugees or migrants who made it this far with nothing but balls and tenacity? instant population improvement." - Esmerelda Osman

If only :)

MaddyinaPaddy · 05/09/2015 14:16

Facts have been pointed out ad naseum but certain posters are so close minded they refuse point blank to listen or hear, they are so blinkered in the beliefs they espouse

But they are entitled to their POV how ever much you try to talk them round, the same as you are entitled to yours.!!

spatchcock · 05/09/2015 14:16

This is so utterly depressing. I remember reading about how it was so easy to send Jews to concentration camps. Because the rhetoric of hatred against Jews was so easy to spread. Looking the hate spewed on this thread is a reminder that the same thing could happen again.

Sillybillybonker · 05/09/2015 14:16

There is a good explanation of refugee v migrant in this BBC article. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34158660

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 05/09/2015 14:17

cote

of course there are cultural differences how can you possibly deny that many aspects of Islam are sexist.

How? We all know it!

We know there are massive problems with sexism in Muslim countries. Of course people should debate and question whether its a good idea to allow people who practice vastly different way of living into the country.

We should never blindly do anything.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4442010.stm

I don't want to side track the debate here but noo has raised valid points about first cousin marriage, it is an issue.

British Pakistanis are 13 times more likely to have children with genetic disorders than the general population - they account for just over 3% of all births but have just under a third of all British children with such illnesses

You may not agree or like this ^ but please dont call a poster a bigot because she has mentioned a very real and troubling practise.

TheoriginalLEM · 05/09/2015 14:18

ooooh, i got deleted - that was for responding to noomflahs racism, not anything other than that!

LilyTucker · 05/09/2015 14:20

On the subject of refugees and migrants. Where do you draw the line? Many migrants may not be classed as refugees but they will be living shit lives with little food,water,medicine,education the likes of which we have no idea and quite rightly would like to give their family a better chance. Some of their food problems are down to climate change which we play a part in. Syria kicked off after a drought and thousands of farmers were displaced.

I would love to know why it is deemed ok for white Westeners to migrate wherever they damn well please but not the other way round.We trot off to the Middle East and enjoy the ex pat life. My ancestors migrated to the States during the gold rush. We have grabbed land off native inhabitants,colonised and now like to do what we damn well please around Europe and the rest of the world. But we begrudge others far worse off from doing the same.

Then as we screw up the planet we want to draw up the drawbridge on our island and keep out others whose lives are made worse from things we've played a part in whether it be through climate change or many wars. Do people really thing we are going to get to sit pretty unscathed whilst the rest of the world struggles?