AIBU to wonder why the hungarian authorities don't allow those people to leave budapest?

[ThisIsStartingToBoreMe]

I don't get it, they obviously don't want them there, so why aren't they letting them carry on to Germany like they want to?

I think, Snowbells, you are being a little harsh in essentially saying racismis playing a part in this. There is a strong streak of compassion in the British people, and I think we would all be equally horrified by relentless media images of dead children and constant stories of deaths en route among desperate African refugees on the trails to Europe. And I think we are all right to be horrified by those images and stories, compassion is a good thing in a hard world. (The media have a large part to play as always, someone upthread said about the media poking us one way and then the other.)

But I do agree that we need to be cautious and not let our sentimentality run away with us. Undoubtedly the people boarding the death boats are those with the money to pay the smuggler fees, the poorest have no options anywhere in the world, there are enemies outside who do not wish us well, and there are long term issues with inviting people from fundamentally different cultures who want to retain their own (eg heavily sexist) belief systems to settle permanently among us. A balance needs to be struck.

This is an interesting and informative thread, thanks.

I think David Cameron is right to take the most vulnerable from camps in countries neighbouring Syria. Otherwise, it encourages people to risk the crossing and to pay the traffickers.

"Who is leaving IS and who is bringing IS here?"

There are plenty of UK-born British subjects who have packed up and joined ISIS. Those are the men & women who will bring IS to the UK and you won't be able to do anything about it. HTH.

Those who've left to join IS are more likely to be watched on return, if they return. There have been concerns raised across the EU about that. Perhaps in your wisdom you can learn to teach the ignorant without despising them for never having had the opportunity to learn?

Picking them up from ports on countries surrounding the trouble zone is, I think, exactly what is being suggested by our government, and it sounds like a good solution to all sorts of problems.

Nice to know even DC either knows something about something somewhere or is prepared to listen to someone who does once in a while. I'm not a fan.

That's really interesting Cote, I can't find anything in English backing you up. So either you are wrong, or there is some sort of English-language press black out of the full details. Which, if true, makes me feel emotionally manipulated.

"the masses are armed with "facts" from DM"

Interesting, but there's a case on another thread this morning whereby it was pointed out that the Guardian has also been guilty of printing misleading "facts." One poster was gleefully posting something she'd read there (as in, "it was in the Guardian, not the Mail, so it must be true") as fact, when in fact it wasn't.

I don't read the DM, but it does irritate me when people try to shut down debate by accusing someone of getting their info from there. The fact is that plenty of people do agree with some of what they publish and, in this democracy we live in, are entitled to express their views. Some of it is also not so far removed from what is reported on the BBC/Channel 4 etc..

clam - I wasn't shutting down debate. What I did on this thread and some others was to correct the errors in people's assumptions & misunderstandings such as "Aylan's family would be sent back to Syria, that is why they got on that boat". I don't know if Daily Mail or another rag is responsible for these fabrications. People might be making them up on their own, for all I know.

In any case, the debate is not shut down. If you have something to say, let's hear it.

Heigh - What part of my posts do you feel did not appear in English-language papers? I have not said anything controversial or unknown.

I don't know if Daily Mail or another rag is responsible for these fabrications

how many times can this be trotted out as argument?

Its so boring. And lazy.

It's not an argument. Read the last couple of posts, at least.

We have this trotted out on a constant basis on here and it boring.

We'll try not to bore you in the future

RTFT. It might help with your boredom.

I watched a video of someone who brought about 14 bags of shopping, when the refugees who are all strangly men saw the bags, they rushed the guy and took the bags without even saying thank you or a hand shake. One even took three bags for himself.
I'm starting to feel less and less sorry for them and I do dread what they will be like if they come over here.

It's alright. Don't fret. Lebanon has taken in over 1 million Syrians, Jordan nearly 800,000 and Turkey around the same. The numbers Western Europe is talking of accepting are miniscule in comparison.

I really don't think any of you need to worry too much about a mass invasion of ISIS-ridden invasion of Syrian migrants to litter your village lawns, hurl food that you've so painstakingly cooked back in your face and bomb your house.

Heaven help us that people might want to flee a war-torn country, rife with civil war that is just getting worse, not better, to find a safer life for them and their families. Just a simple guess on my part, but I don't think trust is a word that exists in their heads right now.

As for the heartless comments on the little boy? A family just lost a child in terrible circumstances. Why can't you just leave it there? It wasn't their fault that the world's media picked it up and ran away with it.

Some of the attitudes on this thread is appalling. Completely agree with your posts too cote

Heigh - What part of my posts do you feel did not appear in English-language papers? I have not said anything controversial or unknown.

I read several broadsheets and watch the BBC daily. I haven't caught any details about the Kurdi family situation. Certainly not that they were living in an apartment, etc. I am not saying that you are lying. But I do feel that the press here is not giving me the full picture.

Yes Cote, that's a Canadian paper. I normally read the ones based here in the UK because that's what is available to me. So probably most people here are not much better informed than I am. Why did the news not give us the whole story?

Aylan's family in The Indy

Here's what is dawning on me. Until a few weeks ago, I heard about the migrant crisis. That was the narrative. Now I hear about refugees in the news. I feel that the media is spinning the facts selectively, one way then the other.

In truth, I suspect most people have complicated situations. There are both push and pull factors causing them to move. It's a harder story for the news to tell. It isn't black and white when you look at people in their full complexity. I think most people leaving Africa for Europe are not clear cut refugees or clear cut migrants. There is a bit of both going on.

Depends on what you think the difference is. Take a refugee from war in a makeshift camp with no running water or toilets and minimal food (let's say again with kids to feed, seen family members murdered), precious little shelter, if they want to move on into Europe would you then call them migrants and complain about how they're worthless parasites? Does it really matter that much?

Yvette Cooper got an emergency debate in parliament on the refugee crisis, if you've got some time to watch it it's online parliamentlive.tv/event/index/85646ce6-0ade-44cc-834a-6d4ea7e61e09?in=13:47:45

(not watched it all yet)