In finding it hard to believe people let their young kids take up seats on trains when adults are standing

[gatorgolf]

Never get the train anymore, first time today in about 10 yrs got train to take DS to London. Train home was really really busy people standing in all the aisles as well as the doorways. We sat DS who is 5 on our knee as I thought that was the done thing when train busy. Family near us had two kids, one about the same age as DS, one slightly older maybe 6 or 7, kids had a seat each for the entire journey. I know its not comfortable to have kids on your knee for long time but its more comfortable than having to stand, there was 4 adults in there party so they could have taken the knee sitting in turns or even made the kids squeeze onto one seat to free one up.

Sorry, posted too soon.
Giles, you've paid for that seat, so what you do is absolutely no issue/problem. Lweji on the other hand is saying she thinks that a child should be allowed to occupy a seat that hasn't been paid for at the expense of someone who has paid. That's just wrong, snowflakey and precious.

but what do you expect a mum with a baby and a small child to do?, she's paid for a seat. She can't stand and hold baby. Kids to small to hold on safely.

kid is also too small to safely hold baby while mum stands.

what them

Surely it would he the kind and decent thing to do for an able adult to help out here?

She's paid for one seat. I'm not sure why everyone else should be inconvenienced because of her choices.

If of course she's paid for seats for all her kids, no problem.

So you would want the child out the seat then? even though it can't safely hold on and is likely to get hurt. be case she dared have another baby and that's taking up her lap yku would rather see that child get hurt out of principle?

that is the disgusting attitude I have a problem with.

The kind thing to do would be to hold the baby or hold the toddler but no your money trumps a toddler.

good job I've raised my children not to be nasty like that and if I was already stood dd2 would offer her seat to the little child

dd1 rather

No one should have to stand. Train companies charge a fortune they should provide more carriages. It should not be up to passengers to squabble over who is more deserving of a seat.

At the price they charge all tickets should be seated.

I think passengers on seats that are able to stand (adults or children), should offer their seat to anyone less able to stand.

I don't think children should be expected to offer their seat to someone just because they are an adult. In fact on the tube I have offered my seat to a child before, as they are more likely to fall over and I am able to stand without any problems.

It's not a disgusting attitude. I tell you what I find is a disgusting attitude: The "My child trumps everyone else and I don't care whether or not I've paid for them to be here". It's nothing to do with actual money. It's to do with the unmitigated arrogance of people thinking their little darlings are more important than everyone else in the world.

No, of course I wouldn't rather see a child get hurt, but really, wouldn't you question the wisdom of a woman with a young baby and other children taking them on a crowded bus to begin with? If she can't manage them, maybe she shouldn't be on the bus.

I don't think children should be expected to offer their seat to someone just because they are an adult.

Neither do I. As long as their parents have paid for them to occupy that seat.

Conditions of travel for free under 5s are interesting. Scotrail offers "kids go free" tickets for up to 2 DC up to age 15 travelling with an adult. Struggling to see how my 12 and 14 year old DDs are going to fit on my lap together with the non-paying 4 year old.

In general I think unencumbered non-disabled adults should do any standing necessary. (In my case the 12 and 14 year old would be first to stand if necessary). However last time I was on the Edinburgh - Glasgow train during the festival I had to comment on the business papers I could clearly read over his shoulder to get someone to pack up his laptop and put his briefcase on his lap so others could sit.

manage them? what like growing 2 laps.

what else could she do? how would you even know what she'd paid?

Absent any disabilities, a 12 and 14 year old really shouldn't have any trouble standing up for a paying adult. The "they're so little they'll get hurt" argument doesn't hold. Then put the 4-year old on your lap.

If your commute is under 10 miles and the train is so crowded, I'd question the wisdom of using that form of transport at all - surely you'd be better cycling? At least you're guaranteed a seat.

Please tell me where in the country I can travel without paying for a 12 and 14 year old, I want to move there.

Oooh, I see I already do - teach me for not RTFT. Bastards - I never knew this - this means I've been unnecessarily paying for seats! Luckily we rarely have to stand for healthy adults, phew!

"kids go free" is fantastic Eddie and it took me a while to find out about it, thus my post to spread the word.

No, of course I wouldn't rather see a child get hurt, but really, wouldn't you question the wisdom of a woman with a young baby and other children taking them on a crowded bus to begin with? If she can't manage them, maybe she shouldn't be on the bus.

As a healthy adult I would not expect anyone to stand for me and would give up my seat for a small child. I think people should be grateful that they are healthy rather than moaning about manners and respect.

Sorry this discussion has been diverted due to special snowflakes apologies for any inconvenience.

As someone with actual qualifications in managing public transport and having dealt with cases of injuries caused by falls on buses. I feel very strongly that despite any conditions on a bus ticket those who are vulnerable to falls the elderly the disabled and the young should be seated for their safety and it is ridiculous to insist on the seat you have paid for at their expense. If we still had public transport run by the public sector and properly subsidised perhaps this petty squabbling would be irrelevant. As transport is a necessity and it is better for the environment to travel on public transport we should be encouraging travel by families on buses and trains etc. Not making people with children paranoid that they will be made to feel that they are less deserving of accommodation due to discounted travel for children! Oh the humanity etc.

Green those not tall enough to hold onto straps or pushy enough to burrow their way through to a bar wouldn't be that able nor children with dyspraxia,hypermobility and a few other conditions I suspect.

The problem seems to be that there is little trust in the innate sense that people generally 'do the right thing' so if Greenwich sees a strapping 9 year old on a seat in a busy train or bus and an adult standing - the mindset appears to be that child is taking up a seat that another person has paid money for - rather than that child must need that seat. Which my case dyspraxic and ASD my Dd1 needs the seat. I am happy to stand. Any able bodied adult can stand.

I also think you are misinterpreting the meaning of public in public transport green. It is not a matter of treating people according to what they have paid but what they need and what is safe, that is how I like to see people behave and that is true good manners.

bigmouthstrikesagain - great common sense, and great comments