To think DB is mean to be charging my DCs for a room we don't want in a holiday home

[TheReason]

DB has arranged weekend away for all of our family. We are meant to be splitting the cost.

There are 6 bedrooms in the house he is renting out. It's working out at approximately £200 per room as me, my DB and DSs are covering the costs of my parents room.

This is a lot of money for us as money is tight due to childcare costs. To be honest I wish we weren't going as we can't really afford it but we feel obliged.

We are the only ones with children.

DB booked the holiday home and - without asking us - decided our children need their own room. Our 2 year old actually sleeps in our bed all the time anyway. Our 6 year old sleeps in his own room at home - but, I would prefer he just squashed into our bed in the holiday home - as otherwise we're paying an extra £200 for him to sleep alone in a room. Chances are that our 6 yr old will end up in our room anyway as he often does and it wouldn't bother us at all.

DB has no children and has no understanding about what having children means.

DB texted me to tell me the breakdown of the cost and I saw that me and DH are having to pay twice what everyone other couple has pay as we have to pay for two rooms.

From DB's point of view he seems to think my DSs are 2 extra people that should be charged as anyone else attending is being charged.

From my point of view, I think it is mean to charge my DSs as adults. Of all the couples attending we actually have the least disposable income due to having the expenses of childcare etc.

If the roles were reversed and DB had children and I didn't - then I would expect that the cost would be divided out per adult.

When I was initially unsure about attending the holiday at all, DB made a big issue about how important it was that my DS's attend. Normally he pays them very little attention and is not really a great uncle for them. He calls over about once every 2 months even though he lives close by and has loads of free time. He seems to feel he has ticked some box by giving them a tiny bit of attention. He always buys them very very cheap presents even though he has no other nephews or nieces and has a very high income. All of this is entirely his choice but colours how I feel about him charging my DC's for a room they don't need

AIBU to think the cost of this holiday home should be divided per adult?

No budgiegirl, OP updated to say he was looking for 10 adults, it was the only place that would take that many adults. Nothing to do with children.

But surely the children do need to be taken into account when searching. Not every house for 10 adults will allow two extra children. So the brother did need to find a house for 12 (or at least 10+2). So the house for 12 fulfilled that criteria.

This is the sort of thing you arrange in advance. Do you pay per adult (it would be unfair for a single adult to pay the same as 2 adults who'd eat more and use more stuff and often have a better room ) or per person or per room. You are a family of 4 which is quite a big unit to expect to pay the same as 1 or 2 adults.
If we go away my sister has no kids and no spouse so she wouldn't expect to pay the same as my brother and I with spouses and kids.

I think you're right to split the cost of the grandparents' share equally between the siblings, paying 25% each.

But do you honestly intend to pay for the one room only, expecting your 2 DC to go completely free? Don't you think you should chip in a bit extra since you're 4 people not 2? Or are you expecting the others to generously offer you the 'spare' room since you're the only family present and need the space more?

I think you risk looking tight and mean, especially if you also insist on keeping your own food separate, cooking separately etc.

Why in the name of fuck should other people pick up the tab for your kids?

there's been as many people saying it should be per household than those tight wads saying per person

How is saying you should pay your way and not expect others to stump up for your kids being a tight wad ?

Bro is being tight

Family shld work on marxist principles-from each according to ability to each acc to need

You do learn to avoid these things ime-or at least anticipate where you might get tucked up and address it early on before it's too late

Why in the name of fuck should other people pick up the tab for your kids?

The kids are the grandkids. Who have been invited by the brother because their grandparents would want them on the trip.

They are all related. The aunts and uncles will probably enjoy being with their niece/nephew/s. Because they are a family.

All this money grabbing. Just doesn't sit well. Are you the sort of people that split a bill by the penny because a kid had an unscheduled ice cream? And because they aren't your kids you ain't subsidising them? Who would want to be in a family like that?

Family shld work on marxist principles-from each according to ability to each acc to need

Probably not on holiday, though. That's merely a kindness on the part of the more well-off/fewer kids siblings. Not something to be demanded or relied upon.

All this money grabbing. Just doesn't sit well. Are you the sort of people that split a bill by the penny because a kid had an unscheduled ice cream? And because they aren't your kids you ain't subsidising them? Who would want to be in a family like that?

A more apt metaphor here would be, should the family of 4 pay more on the tab than a family of 2. Not who had ice cream.

A more apt metaphor here would be, should the family of 4 pay more on the tab than a family of 2

No - not if the whole underlying premise is that the 4 siblings are treating the parents, and the BROTHER is the one who invited the kids along.

We have the same problem when holidaying with family, we are the ones with children. Various formulas are suggested, all with us paying most. It's been interesting to see on this thread that most people seem to think you should pay per room. The issues I have with this are:

• They all want a certain standard of accommodation (they are used to having more disposable income than us) whilst we would be happy with less.
• Large houses with facilities like games room, hot tub, large kitchen etc come at a premium, a 6 bed is normally more than two 3 beds in the same area for instance so we can end up paying a lot more in real terms than a couple for facilities that we all share. If my large family didn't come the group wouldn't be large enough to get those facilities.
• They want to charge my kids an adult price then shove them in the worst rooms, sometimes suggestions that they can sleep in the room with a sofa bed, reduced head height etc. If I'm paying the same price we'll draw lots thanks (otherwise I'd be fine with that of course).

I've come to the conclusion that it's easiest to say I can afford x, work around that.

Saying that, if there is a spare room, it is ridiculous squeezing you all into one bed. Simple, each parent shares a bed with a child and you have more space.

Well, here's the rub. OP's brother was considering what size house they needed, and figured a room was required for the younger kids. He divided the tab accordingly. OP wants it to be divided by number of siblings. Naturally, the family of 4 will overflow into the extra room thereby using it as OP's brother calculated.

I think you should tell your brother that you can't afford for your children to join you on the weekend as that doubles the cost to you.
Therefore you are trying to find someone to look after them for the weekend but if you cannot, you will have to pull out of coming but will pay the contribution for your one room.
Then see how he responds. He will probably tell you that he'd already told you the cost and then you can respond that you thought it was going to be divided per family.

If the group of 12 were going on holiday together of course the group of 4 should pay more than the group of 2.

This is not a big family holiday.

The is a present, upon agreeing to participate the cost was to be split equally between the 4 givers, as this group of adult siblings do every year.

The DB was unable to find a house to sleep 10 adults precisely, and so booked a house with 6 bedrooms. This cost 1000 pounds. It would cost 1000 pounds if 1 person stayed, or 4, or 10, or 12. It was not chosen in order to sleep 12 (from what the OP has said) and the OP was originally content to make other arrangements for her children.

The DB suggested the OP bring the children along as the grandparents will want them there.

When the OP said OK, he said OK then, here's your bill - you can pay 40% of the price of the gift we 4 siblings are giving our parents, and the rest of us will pay 20% each, after all your kids will use the room which otherwise would have been sitting empty because there were no 5 bed houses available you sucker

In no way is anyone going to be subbing the kids - the house booked would be the house booked even without the kids, and the cost would be the same either way.

Rather the DB's suggestion is that the OP sub him and the other siblings on the price of the gift they all agreed to give their parents, by being persuaded to bring along extra people to fill the vacant room which was going to be there either way, and then paying full whack for them... Neat trick...

Not rtft because it's soooo long.
Brother is being unreasonable.

If kids are staying in one room with the parents the price of house should be split equally between all the siblings. If the kids get their own room they should maybe pay a bit more but certainly not adult price - chances are the kids room will be a crappy room with bunks or singles that the adult couples wouldn't be happy to stay in anyway.
And obviously the kids shouldn't be contributing to the gps present - wtf??

We often do weeks away with friends in holiday lets - we book 4 bed house (8 beds) for 8 adults and 4 kids - the kids just sleep with parents. It has never been a problem.

If it was with friends I would agree that income of other families is none of OPs business. But they are family so it's different. In the brother's position I would offer to pay extra as he should have checked before he booked the room AND because he can better afford the extra.

In fact our family would have just split this equally by siblings in the first place regardless of who was in which room. If you're so petty that you care about a few hundred £££ between your family I'm not sure why you'd want to go on holiday with them anyway??

Do you see the rental of the whole house as being the gift to your parents, TheReason? In that, it is their weekend house and up to them who then stays there and in which rooms.

Or do you see the rental of their share (one room) in the house as being the gift to your parents? With the rental of the other rooms being taken up by those who stay in them.

If the latter, then I think you probably do have to pay for beds for your children (and the four siblings divide the cost for your parents gift/room). In self-catering accomodation, the rental tends to be based on the total number of bed-spaces (whether used by adults or children) and it is unusual for a rental to allow extra people (even children), over the number of bed-spaces and thus free of charge.
I understand you are struggling, but I don't think this is your DB's 'fault (though he's miscalculated your share of your parents room). No matter who booked, or which cottage they booked, I don't think they would have been likely to be able to include your children in the booking without bed-spaces and free of charge.

If you see the gift as the former ... the whole house being your parents ... then it is perhaps going to be more difficult (because the house has been rented for 12) perhaps you could explain this to your siblings. Maybe your parents could then also use the 'spare' room to invite two special friends (if the t&c of the rental allowed that in addition to the12 already booked).

Either way, I think you have to talk to your siblings I think there are two issues here. The first is, as some have said, that your siblings cannot in the future be expected to subsidise your children on family holidays. The second ... and much more importantly, I think ... is that (this time round, at any rate) ... you're struggling, you can't afford it, and you need their help. Tell them that.

The OP has decided to pay 25% as originally agreed so really there is nothing more to say.

I do think she should pay 25% either way - even if she decides to pull out.

This is a gift costing 1000 pounds to the OP's parents from their 4 children. If one of the adult children pulls out, or is taken ill and can't go, or if they bring along children because there is space, either way they should pay 1/4 of the price of the gift, because that's what giving a gift is (as opposed to going on holiday for holiday's sake).

The OP would be better off paying her 25% contribution to the present and either leaving the kids with the other grandparents or not going at all, because she would save herself the travel costs and the contribution to food (which is not part of the present and which it would initially seem fair she pay a bigger share of to reflect her children's presence, but will probably resent if her 2 year old only eats a slice of toast and her brother insists on a bill for copious amounts of good wine and fresh salmon and premium quality aged organic steak or whatever being split equally between the 12 people in the house...). But either of those options would probably be considered unreasonable by some people too.

The DB was unable to find a house to sleep 10 adults precisely

Where did the OP say that? I thought there were always 12 going, as the DB wanted the grand kids to go

Oh there's a challenge budgie - I know she's said it but the thread is so long I really cba to trawl back through...

The second ... and much more importantly, I think ... is that (this time round, at any rate) ... you're struggling, you can't afford it, and you need their help. Tell them that.

Well, that probably requires them actually telling the brother rather than assuming that he'd be happy to subsidise his sister's family. It's pretty disarming to say you need help, and likewise toxic to assume that people will work numbers in your favour.

I have a SIL (married) who does not have kids, and we book chalets or villas regularly as a family. I couldn't countenance her paying the same as my family of four. We don't have that kind of relationship.

She said it at 12:28:40 Budgie [over invested]

Yes thats was my thought too nur op I can see you db splitting food costs between each person bar your parents meaning you pay double for food too.

' 'But surely you can see it is not equitable for 4 people to pay the same as 2 people'

madam there's been as many people say that it should be per household as those tightwads saying per person, so no I don't think op will see this as a great revelation actually.'

I am asking her to rationalise why she feels her children should be completely free when they too will be using the facilities .I don't buy the 'it costs no more' argument because by that rationale nobody should pay back the DB anything!!

I'd really like to know whether you and your husband will send your two kids off to the unused 6th bedroom, or whether you'll fashion a makeshift bed on the floor just out of principle.