About daughter getting into uni

[ComeTheRawPrawn]

I need some perspective here.

Daughter (18) has been horrendous to live with this year, to the point where we nearly asked her to go and live with her Gran for a while because she made things so unpleasant. Drinking, sleeping around, lying, spending our money on things we didn't want her to, getting sacked from part time job, refusing to attend 6th form. It's been a bad few months with her. We had daily phone calls from teachers stressing out about her lack of coursework and missed deadlines. It reached the point where, as much as I still love her, at the minute I don't really like her, nor do I trust her, due to the lying and money issues.

Results day came yesterday and she got poor grades compared to the requirements for uni. They wanted AAB and she got BDD. I thought this was a fair result considering she didn't crack a textbook open since Christmas. The uni have accepted her anyway!

I feel like she's learnt nothing from all the trouble she gave us, I feel very much that she doesn't deserve this place.

She wants to go to uni again now. My first concern is that she's shown such little academic commitment this year that she'll struggle with the independent learning of uni but accept that she will find out the hard way.

My other concern is that, having lost her part time job, the loan/grant she will get will by swallowed up by halls fees and she'll have nothing left to live on. She won't get another job easily, having been sacked. She didn't apply for halls or loans because she gave up on the idea of uni so of course all the cheapest halls will be taken. Her loan might not even cover all her rent now. She's expecting to go and for us to 'top her up' until she finds a job. I really begrudge this. In order for us to do this, we'd have to cut back to severe basics, our budget is tight as it is. My partner would have to do loads overtime just to keep our basic bills paid. I don't want us to do this for her after the things she's done this year. She's still not at all apologetic about any of it.

Aibu to say that she can't go this year and needs to defer a year? Next year, she'll get a better loan anyway, she can use this year to save up too, when she eventually finds a job. We could afford for her to live here & continue to feed her, and hopefully her lack of spends would motivate her to get a new job.

Lottie it is not the noticing she 'doesn't appear to like them' it is the suggestion they should give in to rectify this. She has stolen from them and treated them very badly. She may 'like' them more if they top her up an send her off with a smile but it wont last.

She will have learned nothing, no consequences and will get a shock when uni doesn't give her a pat on the back and a free pass to laze about! I am more interested in bringing my children up with life skills to manage in this world and a sense of responsibility than letting them think I am amazing all the time.

Parenting involves direction not just being their best mate!

I wouldn't worry about references from the job she was sacked from. She doesn't have to mention it when she applies for jobs.

If your household income is less than £42,000, you should support her student finance application as she will be eligible for a maintenance grant, which may in turn trigger a bursary from the university. Her maintenance loan, outside London, will be shy of £4,000. She'll need around £8,000 to be comfortable, which is where parents are expected to step in. Higher loans don't come in until next year and I think they'll be means-tested to simple replace the grant with a loan. Not everyone will be entitled to the higher loans. Again it will all come down to an assessment of household income. Yes, she could get a job, but whilst an English degree has minimal contact hours, it requires maximum self-motivation to prepare adequately for and make the most of those contact hours. Deferral isn't necessarily going to be possible with those low grades. I'm sure a RG university would wish to select from next year's pool of candidates.

Is a repeat year at Sixth form a possibility, to enhance her grades and study skills?

I think the uni is being very cynical....accepting someone that far below the grades is a money grab...they are probably assuming she will drop out and are just after her first 9k...

Maybe explain to her that this is what the uni might be expecting and see if you can't transfer her rebellion into fighting their expectations that she will fail?

I would a) sign off on the loan and b) not be providing top ups.

Perhaps work out how much money you would spend supporting her at home, over the next year. Tell her, that is the amount of support you will give.

IceBeing - parents don't need to sign off the loans. OP - can you sit down and talk finances? There'll be a student finance calculator on line so you can see how much she is entitled to. Look at accommodation costs, factor in travel, food, books, social life, etc and get her to understand the shortfall that needs to be found.

scholes parents do need to provide details of their income for a student to receive anything but the minimum loan.

Let her crack on. Try for Halls, get finance and wish her well.

The RG university will try their best not to let her fall out in first year (due to funding). Her lack of commitment would be picked up very quickly.

Part time bar job/coffee shop work wouldn't likely need a reference. Advise her not mention the brief job she had.

New friends from a different area might turn around her attitude.

Tough love. If it was me I'd let her make the choice whether to go or not but make it clear that she'll have to get herself a job or she won't be eating very much while she's there. Sometimes people learn faster when they have to sort their own mess out.

Until I saw that she wasn't at all apologetic I was going to say that you should give her the benefit of the doubt and support her if she wants to go, now I am less sure. Part of me wants to say you should support her and the other part of me says you need to get her to somehow prove she is serious about it, though I don't know how. Good luck OP.

I would be shoving her out the door! Sit her down, explain what you can and cant do to support her and let her get on with it. A change of scene and a change in your relationship might be just what you all need

hibbledibble - yes, but parents don't need to "sign off the loan". Parents can't stop a student from applying for a loan.

This could be the point at which your relationship turns around. But you'll have to be the one that makes it happen initially. Maybe start with what a PP suggested - 'lets see if we can make this work'. Ask her to find out the necessary info. Calmly say there'll be no overtime (it hangs on previous earnings when they apply for finaince anyway). Calmly tell her what you can afford to contribute and offer to help her find other sources of info (eg bursaries). You'll have to suck up the fact that SF need to means test her application and give them your details. Make it a co-operative exercise between you and her.

Then make it VERY clear that you are prepared to do this for her first year only. Further support will depend on how she does academically by the end of that year because otherwise, she'll end up with a crappy degree and a mountain of debt. I did this. It worked.

If her going away to this university isn't a good idea, could she go to a local university or even do a distance learning degree - some universities (Birmingham and some Scottish ones, there could be others) do them and there is also the Open University.

I would be very positive about her going but not assume responsibility for her living expenses. Doing an English degree will leave her plenty of time to work and working is far more motivating when it's to put food in your own mouth or clothes on your own back.

Also, in private, make a plan B with your dh, for the terms under which she can live at home again if she drops out. I would include paying rent (out of JSA if necessary), being responsible for her own meals/cleaning and washing and being out of the house from 9-5 looking for work in this. Time to grow up.

I think she is lucky to have a place for English at an RG university. Given the grades she has, she is very lucky indeed?

The uni wouldn't take her if they didn't think she could survive the three years and get a degree. They don't actively seek higher drop-out rates.

Being at uni may be very good for her. I would let her go as on those grades she won't get another offer like the one she currently holds.

Follow the sensible advice above on helping her to sort out her finances (including providing her with the details she needs to get the loans) and encouraging her to get a job. She can easily work one day a week in the university town. Give her whatever help you can afford but don't do the overtime or make sacrifices yourself.

Once she is at uni, you can enjoy the calmer atmosphere at home.

Let her go. I was a nightmare teen. My parents despaired over me. I went of to uni where I applied myself better than I ever did at school but had to have two part-time jobs to eat & pay rent, I worked all summers and learned tough life lessons along the way - it was the making of me and I am glad I had those wake up calls (it took a lot of them for me to grow up). It took my parents an even longer time to get over how awful I had been. I was probably 30 before they stopped referring back to those bad years.

My mum was completely unsupportive over my sister going to uni as she didn't think she would do the work. My sister ended up deferring and working full time for 2 years and in the end came to the same conclusion. Still think this was slightly harsh of my mum but it probably was right of her!

If she hasn't wanted to go to uni up until now and hasn't sorted anything for it then she really has to question herself as to whether she wants to go. You need to explain to her that the bank of mum and dad are just not going to run to subsidising her (as it happens, I think it's totally unfair that parents on reasonably modest incomes are forced into contributing) and that if she goes it will be really hard work and she won't cope.

As others have said, I don't think you can say she can't go but you can make her realise just how difficult it's likely to be. In her position I would work full time for a year (getting sacked from P/T jobs doesn't always stop this), save up, apply for decent accommodation and sort my loan out ready to start next September.

I should point out that if she applies for a loan now it's unlikely to be in place by the time she starts.

If your budget is as tight as you say, OP, surely you have nothing to lose by submitting your own financial details so that your DD can access more funding than the basic minimum? They don't actually present parents with any kind of bill or payment schedule. It's still up to you how much you do or don't contribute. Even willing parents are kept in the dark about how much they need to cough up.

I think you should provide the information. By not doing that you will come across as vindictive and controlling because it will not cost you anything but will stop her getting more than the minimum loan.

I agree you should not provide any financial support beyond maybe some essential kit (sauce pan, cup, plate, cutlery, toiletries, first aid kit, sewing kit, cooking utensils laundry powder) and maybe (if you are feeling generous) whatever her food costs you now per week, eg £30 or the odd care package by post.

Then leave her to get on with it. Getting sacked from her old job will not stop her getting a new one because she doesn't even need to mention it unless she applies for a role where she needs to complete a fit and proper questionnaire like a bank. At 18 people don't expect a lot of work history and she can get voluntary experience to help with a reference.

She is an adult so start treating her like one. She has to make her own decisions and mistakes. You do not have to bank roll her and do not under any circumstances ring her university as suggested by a previous poster.

Then heave a huge sigh of relief when the stroppy madam has pushed off to uni.

Did something happen that started her behaviour decline? Maybe argument with friends, split with boyfriend, someone at her job? Only asking as it isnt just typical 'teen' behaviour for some who was ok to suddenly become like this.
I gave up half way through my a levels and was always late, didn't turn up and generally couldnt be arsed. I didnt do anything bad but was deeply unhappy and at the time didnt have the emotional maturity to deal with it. Moving to uni and getting a fresh start, new friends and some breathing space, for all of you, might be the best thing.

Agree that the loan probably won't come through before the start of term so you will have to cough up c. 3 months rent and a deposit.
I would support whatever decision she makes, go through costs etc. and how much you are prepared to cough up. Make looking for PT work non-negotiable and hope she can get something. Regarding accommodation, get a move on! Students going through clearing will be snapping up rooms NOW! And if anything, the cheaper places will be available as it's the desirable locations that go quickly in the spring when allocations start.

Financially, we are stuck because our income last year is on the borderline for the maintenance grant (it was £41500) but this year it is £12k less. So they'd assess her on our income last year but we couldn't help her out from this year's reduced income.

She'd be entitled to around £5.6k. If she deferred a year (if it's possible, thanks to the posters who pointed out it might not be an option), the govt are changing the system and she'd be entitled to an £8k loan, which is far more doable and I think a fairer option than letting my husband do overtime to top her up.

She does know our finances are stretched and she does know he'd have to do overtime. Going uni initially was financially possible because of her job - she had one that does inter city transfers and had been offered one.

She has a raging hangover this morning so I'm letting that subside, think we'll get further when she feels better!

Also, to give a slightly different perspective, I got pretty poor grades at A level (BCC). I had undiagnosed dyspraxia, anxiety and was completely disillusioned with school for various reasons. I was pretty much a perfect teenager outside of school (yuck, also I totally lacked friends) but I did start skipping school on a very regular basis as every time I went in I would get told off. I was very regularly threatened with being kicked off various A level courses and predicted DDD for UCAS. Some crying to my form tutor and I got this changed to CCC.

I went to an ex-poly to study Geography, which I adored and ended up with a good 2:1, a 1st in my dissertation and in the 3 years since I left I have worked near constantly in jobs related to my degree. I am now changing career to train to be an SEN teacher. Wayward, rubbish at school teenagers can turn things around but I think she needs to find out whether she can!

Oh sorry, meant to say also we have 3 other kids who are younger so we've got to consider them when looking at the budget.