To protest at the words "Jewish" and "Israeli" being used interchangeabley.

[Jewishnotisraeli]

They are not the same thing at all.

Most Jews are not Isreali

Many Isrealis are not Jewish.

20-25% of Israelis, including the Israeli army are Muslim, ( varies year to year)

Some Jews are Arabs. Some Arabs are Jewish.

Some Palestinians on the West bank are Jewish.

There are no known Jewish Palestinians in the Gaza strip as Hamas has succeeded where Hitler failed, in wiping out it's own indigenous Jewish population. This is the ONLY reason why there are no Jews left in this population.

Israel has done terrible things. Hamas has done terrible things.

Please don't classify things done by Israel as done by Jews, a quarter of them are not Jews. please don't classify things done by Hamas as done to Jews, many of their atrocities are inflicted on Muslims.

To say Jews and Israelis are the same is like saying English people and Anglicans are the same, many people are English and Anglican, many people are English but not Anglican, and many Anglicans are not English.

And also, some Palestinians, and some Israelis are Christians.

If the stopped trying to eliminate the Jews, then life might be easier for them. Israel has tried being nice and keeps getting bombed.

Does anyone think either side has tried whole-heartedly being nice?

That was to Carol, there doesn't seem to be much history of 'niceness' there at all.

Calloh

I think you just summed up the whole Israeli/Palestinian conflict!

I hate the race to the bottom with which side is worse. It goes around and around. Sometimes it's the Palestinians, sometimes the Israelis. Both sides have legitimate claims and legitimate grievances. And both sides aren't very nice to one another in an endless cycle of cause and consequence.

There is more onus on the Israelis as the more powerful side but the Palestinians are also actors in their own right, capable of making pretty awful decisions as they often do.

I agree Ego, and forgiveness.

part of the problem is both populations are traumatized. trauma changes the brain.

I really wouldn't be surprised if PTSD was rampant.

If the Palestinians just stopped resisting occupation land theft and blockade peace would prevail in the ME?
There are actions on both sides that are abhorrent but that some people including some on this thread would try to justify the indiscriminate killing and oppression of innocent t women and children is just so shocking to me.

And frankly disgusting.

Unfortunately, I see things going downhill, not very optimistic for any resolution.

Israeli Jews are more right-wing and less sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, there is a shift from democracy to nationalism and settlements are more entrenched meaning that the two-state solution is even less likely. Even for Israelis opposed to settlements, it's far easier to sit and sip an espresso in Tel Aviv than have to deal with the chaos being spread across the West Bank. The situation is being 'contained' and it's all too easy to forget about it across the green line when you're busy living your own life.

On the Palestinian side, the further rise of Islamic extremism and spread of Islamic State mean that the likelihood of a viable Palestinian State is even more remote. If it were just an issue of Hamas in Gaza, I think things could have eventually been worked out (just like the PLO moved away from terror, you can see a softening of Hamas positions) but Hamas are no longer considered radical, there are far more extreme groups to deal with.

YANBU. I would go one step further and criticise the actions of the Israeli government when unreasonable, not 'Israel' as a whole.

PTSD: and jewish children too, by the missile strikes. I have a friend with 5 kids in Israel and they seem to get them a lot judging by her FB updates.

Some History:

What is now Israel and Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire until 1918
It then became a British mandate until c1945
The British then put the decision to the UN to decide what to do with the land and the displaced Jewish population in Europe as well as the Jews who had travelled there prior to 1945.
The UN agreed a partition plan for 14 May 1948, which the Jewish agreed to, setting up the borders and Jerusalem to be controlled by the UN. The Arab world did not like this and there was fighting on and off between 1945 and 1948.
On 15 May 1948, Eygpt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq invaded the territory with a desire to 'drive the Jews into the sea'
A cease fire was declared in 1949 with the green line borders, with Eygpt controlling the Gaza strip and Jordan holding the west bank and east Jerusalem. The Arab League refused to allow Palestinians citizenship in other Arab countries .
Israel gets continually attacked by Palestinians until 1967, when Jordan, Eygpt, Syria and Iraq in the 6 day war, in which Israel expanded into the occupied territories.
PLO is founded and becomes a terrorist organisation to attack and destroy the Jews
In 1973, Eygpt and Syria attack again, and lose again.
Since then, the various terrorist organisations, supported by Arab nations, have continued to attack Israel in the name of killing all Jews, not just to get back land.

So, unless we accept that the UN mandate of 1948 was wrong, the Israelis have not provoked any actions against them except by being Jewish. The fact they are stronger than their enemies does not make them the bad guy.

Carol, that's a pretty distorted version of history and I have a lot of sympathy for the Israeli narrative.

Yes, Palestinians rejected partition plan in 1947 (and things go back further with the rejection of the Peel partition plan in the 1920s and the Arab rebellion in the 1930s). Yes, Arab states invaded in 1948, expecting an easy victory. Yes, Jordan and Egypt held the WB and Gaza respectively between 1948 and 1967 and never established a Palestinian state.

But Israel has done A LOT of nasty shit as well. OK, it's not a very nice neighbourhood but much of it isn't justified. I don't think it helps to make Israel out to be blameless (just like the Palestinians aren't either).

Lastuser you mean isreali children? Not just Jewish? You have done what most on this thread have agreed is unreasonable by conflating the two.
Carol they are provoking a reaction by being an occupying force.

the Israelis have not provoked any actions against them except by being Jewish.

The Israelis aren't Jewish, they are Israeli. Many are Jewish, plenty are not.
That's the point of the OP's initial post!

the Israelis have not provoked any actions against them except by being Jewish.

Except:

• grab some land (yes I know the British agreed but it was hardly theirs to give away)

• dispossess some of its inhabitants

-killed a lot some people who objected

and so on.

I dont get why we dont give ireseal the same treatment they treat both the West bank and Gaza how come we dont impose massive sancations upon iriseal and actully FORCE it to negoation a peace in good faith and by that I mean remove its illigal settlements which have been condemned by the entire UN (even the USA) but apprently Iresral is allowed to flawnt international law but not labeled a rogue state like North Korea and Iran (even tho iran has not even broken half the laws iresil has but is harishly punished by the world)

The current prime minister has basically come out and said their will never be peace during his rule as he does not belive in a palistine state and contines to increase in number the illigeal settlements etc.

We bloody well bombed seriba for FAR FAR less than what israel gets away with (while I do not condone a bomibng campgain against isreal I support a total boycot of irsaelli goods until the government actully gets down to serious peace talks even if we have to impose Gaza level sanactions upon them so be it)

And from wine the so called offered "peace" were along the same bloody lines that were offered to native americans during the colonail period where they said we will stop killing you if you move to these shit resivations etc)