To protest at the words "Jewish" and "Israeli" being used interchangeabley.

[Jewishnotisraeli]

They are not the same thing at all.

Most Jews are not Isreali

Many Isrealis are not Jewish.

20-25% of Israelis, including the Israeli army are Muslim, ( varies year to year)

Some Jews are Arabs. Some Arabs are Jewish.

Some Palestinians on the West bank are Jewish.

There are no known Jewish Palestinians in the Gaza strip as Hamas has succeeded where Hitler failed, in wiping out it's own indigenous Jewish population. This is the ONLY reason why there are no Jews left in this population.

Israel has done terrible things. Hamas has done terrible things.

Please don't classify things done by Israel as done by Jews, a quarter of them are not Jews. please don't classify things done by Hamas as done to Jews, many of their atrocities are inflicted on Muslims.

To say Jews and Israelis are the same is like saying English people and Anglicans are the same, many people are English and Anglican, many people are English but not Anglican, and many Anglicans are not English.

And also, some Palestinians, and some Israelis are Christians.

Sam

No, it's not saying that Arabs are capable of civilised behavior. But Israeli human rights standards ARE higher than those of all Arab societies surrounding them. I think this is to be celebrated, it's a good thing. Of course Israel should respond to attacks but a) has to be held to the standards of modern warfare in western democracies and b) shouldn't attack just to do something but only if it will actually change the situation - we're back to square one in Gaza and just waiting for the next round - so what did the nearly 2000 Palestinian deaths actually achieve?

Sorry that should say 'not saying that Arabs AREN'T capable of civilised behaviour'

How many people on this thread have visited Palestine? Have seen it for themselves? What the Palestinians go through every day, the way they are treated....it is horrific. And the vast majority of the violence and terror and hararrssment that they experience every day is ignored by the world's media.

Yes, I am outraged by Isarel, because I have seen it, in all its cruelty. I strongly urge everyone I know to visit, make your own mind up.

Ego, of course it isn't easy to visit. Israel doesn't want the world to see what it does.

It was a life changing trip for me, literally changed my whole perspective.

It's extremely easy to go to the WB. It's also safe for a tourist. I'd recommend it too. There are amazing places to see as well.

Gaza is another story. I wouldn't recommend going there. It's very chaotic and not safe.

It's not that what happens in the WB and Gaza isn't wrong. It's not that the Palestinian cause isn't justified.

But my point is that the interest in and outrage about Israel is way disproportionate to the level of human rights abuses or human suffering. The fact that it is so accessible and that you CAN easily and safely go as a tourist is testament to that.

I think the vast majority of violence experienced by people throughout the world is ignored by the world media. Hundreds might be killed in Nigeria and it'll barely get a mention.

Proportionally, I think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict gets a lot of interest. Journalists have almost free access, especially compared to other regions in conflict, and there's a lot of reporting going on.

When were you there ifiwas that you say it is so difficult?

I just came back from Israel/Palestine last week. I had to go to Ramallah from Jerusalem. It was very easy. It's difficult for Palestinians to enter Israel and Israelis are officially forbidden from entering Area A (but many do such as Israeli Arabs) but otherwise no problems whatsoever.

I went two years ago. The friend I was with was held on the way in. I was questioned at length.

The worst part was being held for 5 hours on the way out.

Everywhere we went, the checkpoints, the inspections. Talk about grinding you down.

But that's of course what the Israelis want to do to Palestinians.

Despite this I'm itching to go back and will be there next month, time off work permitting.

Oh, you mean you were stopped at the airport. Well, that's easy. Just say you're a tourist visiting holy sites. No need to go into details.

I hope you also take some time to listen to the Israeli narrative while you're there. You might not agree with it but important to understand it.

Shakshuka you don't think I tried that? I have numerous Middle eastern stamps in my passport. That is not pleasing to the Israelis. They made their contempt for my travel well known and asked me a barrage of questions. I was lucky, that bit was over quickly, my friend was kept for an hour.

And how should I have solved being stopped for the five hours on the way out? What purpose did that serve? As they took every single item out of my bag, checked all my photos, deleted some they didn't like, checked my iPad? Asked me deeply personal questions about me sharing a room with my male friend? Strip searched me? It was beyond the pale.

Anyway, these issues were a by comment, really. My point was, I saw how Israel treats Palestinians and it was vile.

As for Israeli narrative...does hearing Israeli families hurling abuse at Palestinian shopkeepers in Jerusalem count?

Ego, there is a palestinian who has been held in Israeli prison without charge for months now. He has been on hunger strike for nearly 2 months now. Israelis want to force feed him! Doctors without borders have said force feeding would be tantamount to torture. bbc link

Sham, don't hate Israel, I want Palestinians to have equal rights in Israel. One state solution for all.

Equal rights for Palestinians really grates a lot of extremists in Israel doesn't it? Most of the Knesset and their settler terrorist friends especially. Taking someone else's land makes them euphoric. Torturing and burning kids alive seems to be a game. Mention the holocaust and the stats start rolling out as if to keep the monopoly on suffering.

israel will never be at peAce whilst it imprisons a nation. The Palestinians will be free one day and the racist apartheid walls will be broken, no matter how high.

Purple

It's actually the Israeli Medical Association which says it'd be tantamount to torture and it's Israeli doctors who are challenging the law and refusing to force-feed him.

One of the best things about Israel is the strong civil society.

Palestinians DO have equal rights in Israel (ie Palestinians who are Israeli citizens). It's the WB and Gaza which are the problem because they haven't been annexed, the Palestinians there aren't Israeli citizens but citizens of the State of Palestine.

The one state solution is a possibility. I don't think it'd work because it would mean that ISrael would no longer exist. Maybe a bi-national state? But why not the two state solution? I worry it may no longer be possible but it's the one that makes the most sense.

You say you don't hate Israel but the way you write seems quite hate-filled. Taking someone's land makes most Israeli politicians euphoric? WTF? Torturing and burning kids is a game? That is incitement, pure and simple.

badger

So you came to Israel, having visited a whole bunch of countries with whom Israel is still officially at war, and you are annoyed that they asked you questions and you were detained for an hour?

That's called not making it easy to visit the West Bank?

My brother in law came to the US and was detained for longer than that because they thought he wanted to work here!

And purpleturtles - the occupation only began in 1967 follwoing the six day war. If 'imprisoning a nation' is the only reason Israel doesn't know peace, then why wasn't there peace between 1948 and 1967? Who was Israel imprisoning then? And why did Egypt, Jordan and Syria even invade ISrael then? Surely they shold have been busy establishing a Palestinian state in the WB and Gaza???

Shak , burning children alive is also an aspect of israels civil society.

You are right, the ethical Israeli medics have condemned force feeding. Yet the director hasn't ruled it out.

Next you will be telling us how great Israel's civil society is for setting families on fire but then giving then treatment in Israeli hospitals.

Ego

Yes, I have spoken with Palestinians, worked with Palestinians, studied with Palestinians and have Palestinian friends.

I have plenty of sympathy for their cause and what they're going through. It doesn't mean I always think they're in the right but their suffering is undeniable and definitely greater, as a whole, than that of Israelis.

I think it's important to always search out the other narrative. You don't have to agree with it but you should try to understand it.

burning children alive is also an aspect of israels civil society.

Is that right? How so?

Could I also say that slitting the throats of three month old babies is part of Palestinian civil society?

Shak, I don't hate all israelis. Don't start talking about incitement. Haven't you heard of the game played by Israeli settlers called 'price tag'? Revenge seems to be their motto. Yet they continue to set fire and not much happens to such incitement. Since the baby was burnt to death, the settlers torched a Bedouin tent. Nobody was in it but I can upload a picture of the mother father and 2 little children who Would have paid the'price' had they been there. The only incitement I see is coming from Israeli government and the extremists whilst the moral Israeli army and police turn a blind eye to their crimes.

No, YOUR words are inciteful and full of hatred as well. Talking about Israeli civil society burning babies! WTF?

I'm not defending any violence. I could also upload horrific photos of the three month old Israeli baby who had her throat slit by Palestinians.
And pictures of the celebrations in Gaza afterwards.

However, just like the vast majority of Israelis condemned the fire bombng and the 'price-tag' actions of extremists, most Palestinians also condemned the slaughter of the Fogel children.

Here's why this matters.

A Jewish American singer has been dropped from a lineup at a Spanish musical festival because he wouldn't sign a statement endorsing a Palestinian state. Note:

1. He's Jewish, not Israeli
2. He's not an official or unofficial representative of the Israeli state, nor of Israel as a country
3. Other artists, and specifically, non-Jewish artists, were not asked to sign this endorsement
4. Neither he nor any other artists were asked to endorse statehood for any other group: not the Catalans, the Basques, the Tibetans etc etc. Nor were they asked to condemn any other state or group: not Isis, ETA, Hizbollah, etc

The grotesque irony of a Spanish music festival singling out a Jewish artist for a ban is too awful for words. 1492, the Marranos, the Inquisition...

Here's the story link:
www.newsweek.com/matisyahu-concert-canceled-palestine-363350