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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if you're in a restaurant garden surrounded by children, you should try to swear less?

158 replies

BooChunky · 10/08/2015 13:37

Yesterday was my mums birthday lunch, and I took my DD's (4 & 2) and we sat outside on an allocated table.

It was lovely weather here yesterday and there were loads of families with children around.

There was also one table of men around 40, and every second word was f*k or c*t. I'm not generally precious about swearing and have never brought it up as an issue if a friend or anyone has accidentally sworn in front of my children, and I'm sure I've done it myself and not even realised, but this was obscene. The conversation was so loud and raucous and everyone was looking over and a lot of parents were clearly not happy.

One woman with children of similar ages to mine asked if she could be moved inside and the waiter apologised but there wasn't a table large enough currently available.
She asked if perhaps the group could be spoken to, and the waiter said he couldn't do that. In fairness to him, he was quite young and I think in my waitressing days, I would've found them intimidating.

But AIBU to think that these people should have shown some respect for the families sitting nearby even if no one spoke to them? Just thinking about it now and it ruined my mums lunch really, as after finishing main courses my parents just wanted to go because they didn't think it was appropriate for the children.

(Or am i being precious?)

OP posts:
TenForward82 · 10/08/2015 15:13

I guess if you were a drunk wandering around the town centre yelling (at no-one in particular) swear words, you'd be arrested on a Public Order offence. I don't think anyone would actually enforce arresting you for swearing about missing your train, unless you started smashing up the train station.

Andthenutlookedgood · 10/08/2015 15:14

Actually it is about using abusive language in the presence of people who could be alarmed or distressed. Section 4a and 4 start to get into the abusive language and behaviour being directed at someone in particular.

Obviously muttering 'for fuck's sake' under your breath when you miss a train is completely different to what the group in the pub garden were doing.

Rubbishfeminist · 10/08/2015 15:14

Tenforward Grin No I haven't lived a sheltered life at all. Most people are vile scumbags, not rational and lovely at all. However, I refuse to live my life tiptoeing around and avoiding people and situations because of the very slim chance I'll get stabbed, beaten up or killed.

maybebabybee · 10/08/2015 15:16

And I'm not being funny but no policeman worth his salt is going to arrest anything for saying 'fuck' or 'cunt' in the presence of children.

The document I just linked to specifically says:

'Unless you are willing to walk around with ear plugs in, or not let your children out of the house, you will need to be realistic about the fact that you and your family will frequently hear foul language being used. '

FrChewieLouie · 10/08/2015 15:16

TonyDanza, yes. I recently had to move away from a large family group on the beach - young children galore - because the fucking and cunting was so loud and constant, much of it addressed to their own poor kids. There was no way I was going to talk to them, given that the topic of their conversation was one of the mum's recent conviction for stabbing someone.

Not everyone can be politely reasoned with, unfortunately.

TenForward82 · 10/08/2015 15:16

Good for you, Rubbishfeminist. I just hope you don't put anyone else in danger when you decide to pick a fight that turns out nasty, particularly young children.

Andthenutlookedgood · 10/08/2015 15:17

Really? All those people I have actually arrested for Sec 5 POA had better start putting some claims in then.......

maybebabybee · 10/08/2015 15:17

Oh, you're a police officer are you!

My, how the plot thickens...

Rubbishfeminist · 10/08/2015 15:18

Tenforward Confused I didn't say anything at all about picking a fight.

What I mean is that if someone is doing something I don't like or is making me feel generally unhappy (as per the OP) then I'll say something to them rather than sitting stewing about it continuing to be unhappy because I'm scared about being stabbed or shot.

maybebabybee · 10/08/2015 15:18

My BIL actually is a policeman and swears like a trooper in beer gardens.

I would think it a serious infringement of civil liberties if people were going round being arrested merely for saying 'fuck'.

Crispyjoyluck · 10/08/2015 15:19

FFS politely addressing someone is not "picking a fight." Hmm

TenForward82 · 10/08/2015 15:23

I should have clarified, I meant THEY would see it as a picking a fight. However, I've "politely addressed" people myself, but having the kind of face that makes me look like a doormat, I get abuse in return. I do relish the look of surprise on their face when I start screaming back at them.

What I'm saying is, I don't think it's fair to judge the OP for not saying anything to them, when she doesn't know what their reaction is going to be, and she's with her children / family, and NONE of the other fuckers in the restaurant would dream of backing her up in case they got hurt /abused themselves.

NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten · 10/08/2015 15:25

"Unless you are willing to walk around with ear plugs in, or not let your children out of the house, you will need to be realistic about the fact that you and your family will frequently hear foul language being used."

Do others on this thread frequently hear "foul" language being used (beyond the odd expletive over missed trains/stubbed toes/ forgotten wallets etc.)? I don't think it is actually normal to hear loud conversations with fuck/fucking/cunt in every sentence in the middle of the day frequently at all, is it? Hmm

TenForward82 · 10/08/2015 15:26

Well, I live in quite a chavvy town, so it depends Wink

Rubbishfeminist · 10/08/2015 15:27

Tenforward But that's the point isn't it...she doesn't know what their reaction was going to be. They might well have apologised and toned it down or they might have shouted abuse.

No-one ever knows what anyone's reaction is going to be to a polite word but I'd rather say something and risk a load of abuse (or possibly unlikely death) than sit quietly and allow people to make my day crap.

TenForward82 · 10/08/2015 15:28

As I've said, good for you. We all react differently. Isn't the world a wonderful diverse place?

If people could agree to act civilly in public in the first place none of us would have to deal with this crap, but there you go.

ConferencePear · 10/08/2015 15:29

I think you should have complained to the manager. If this establishment is offering a children's menu then they should presumably offer an environment that is OK for kids.
If he/she had done nothing I think you should have left and left a suitable review on Tripadvisor so that other parents know what to expect.
I don't blame you at all for not approaching them yourself.
As it is you have taught your DDs an introductory lesson in how men have to be treated with caution.

TenForward82 · 10/08/2015 15:31

ConferencePear, that's not quite fair. The example I gave earlier of my colleague being battered was by a woman. Women are just as capable of acting violently / irrationally. I got into a road rage verbal with a woman a couple of weeks ago, she half-threatened to run me over (using the car to illustrate her point).

Crispyjoyluck · 10/08/2015 15:36

TenForward the world sounds much more scary to you than perhaps it actually is.

ConferencePear · 10/08/2015 15:36

I'm sorry if it's not entirely fair, but it is much more often men isn't it ?

Andthenutlookedgood · 10/08/2015 15:40

Maybe I've already made it clear that there is a difference in everyday bad language and a group of people behaving in front of young families the way the op describes.

The same group behaving the same way in front of a garden full of average adults would not be committing an offence because it would be difficult to argue that the average adult would be alarmed or distressed.

A magistrate would probably accept that parents of young children and the children could reasonably be alarmed or distressed in those circumstances.

It's nothing to do with 'civil liberties' and everything to do with whether an offence has been committed.

bigbluebus · 10/08/2015 15:41

I don't think they should have been asked to tone it down just because children are present. I think many adults find this level of unecessary swearing unpleasant. I have asked men to tone down their swearing on more than one occasion when there have been no children around.

I am no prude and can let out a solitary expletive with the best of them but when every sentence is littered with f**k and the likes then it grates. I honestly believe that many of the types than use this kind of speak don't even realise they are doing it and will often stop when it is drawn to their attention. Either that or they thing they are being 'big' and once it is pointed out that their surrounding audience is not impressed they will stop.

I have challenged lads at the gym with a friendly "tone it down please boys there's ladies present" and roofers/builders working on properties surrounding my garden talking at the tops of their voices not only using swear words but discussing in detail their latest conquests - something I have no wish to hear.

If the waiter nor the customers were prepared to challenge this group directly then I think the Manager should have done it. After all, they are running a business and it is likely that many of the customers present will not frequent this place again and will tell all their friends too. If I had been the Manager their, I would have tackled them about it.

maybebabybee · 10/08/2015 15:41

I have challenged lads at the gym with a friendly "tone it down please boys there's ladies present"

Um, that's pretty sexist?

Rubbishfeminist · 10/08/2015 15:42

Crispy My thoughts exactly.

maybebabybee · 10/08/2015 15:42

Young children don't give a fig if someone says a swear word near them (provided that person is not shouty or aggressive) surely? They don't know they should be offended by them :S