Dads staying over night

[silverperiwinkle]

What do you think?
m.burtonmail.co.uk/Burton-Queen-s-Hospital-introduce-scheme-allow/story-27564928-detail/story.html

captain - my comments about there being no difference to Ben being on the ward in the daytime to the nighttime was in relation to the idea that some men are opportunists and oglers who want crafty looks at other women. That's all my post was focused on.

If you re-read my post you will see I made no reference to ward occupancy or space.

I have previously said that when it comes to fathers staying overnight it can only happen realistically if the wards are far bigger to allow enough space, or that women should have their own cubicles.

Or indeed their own rooms, like 99% of the rest of the developed world!

The newborn is also the patient, thurlow. Some have issues with blood sugar, jaundice, respiratory problems, damage from shoulder dystocia, low birth weight, hip dysplasia, etc etc etc. Checks are there for their benefit too. And I would NOT have wanted to leave my baby at home due post partum care. Mad idea.

Also, happilymarriedexpat re your 'junkies' comment that 'people like that breed' WTF!! what a vile thing to say.

Ok, but what about these things?
A bisexual/lesbian lady has a baby (which happens frequently) what difference is it that she can OGGLE at boobs, she probably couldn't care less tbh? Or the fact that we have no choice whatsoever who we share a room with, as in women can be just as vile/nice/loud/sensitive as any man.
Nowadays we go on and on about involving dads so that they can bond with their babies too, but this seems to be forgotten when it comes to straight after the birth. x

captain - my comments about there being no difference to Ben being on the ward in the daytime to the nighttime was in relation to the idea that some men are opportunists and oglers who want crafty looks at other women. That's all my post was focused on

OK then. Do you not see the difference between being awake in a vulnerable state with a male stranger and being asleep? Maybe you think women should just stay awake for the duration of their visit. You are more vulnerable when you are asleep. If you feel more vulnerable due to sharing what should be a women only space with several male strangers you are less likely to sleep. If you don't sleep you are less likely to recover. You might live in some sort of bubble where all the men are silent and respectful and all the women have experiences which mean they can drop off to sleep with no qualms that neither the man who she is with or any of the men who are strangers will do anything but not everyone has that luxury. 30% of domestic violence starts in pregnancy and that which starts before pregnancy often escalates during pregnancy. Should those women be allowed to sleep or should they just go fuck themselves?

For some, roly, but not all. Many babies are in a position to be discharged before the mum is. Once the baby is ready to be discharged but the mum isn't, then the mum is the patient and the baby is not.

Now I'm not saying I would have wanted my baby to go home before me, but in theory the baby could. The majority of babies are not being cared for on a postnatal ward, it is the mothers that are.

None of that overrides the fact that a woman still deserves a little bit of peace and quiet to recover.

Maltesermom that has been addressed plenty of times upthread - the only people who should be on post-natal wards outside of visiting times are postpartum mothers, newborns, and HCPs.

Ooops sorry x

Maltesermom The women are patients. I've shared wards with twatty patients and put up with it. My friend was in with pneumonia and had a violent woman with dementia next to her who attacked her in the night, but she was a patient and so had every right to be there. Non patients should not expect the same rights as patients. How is that not obvious?

Okay, if you want to be in a bay next to the kind of person who steals morphine from the terminally ill, be my guest. I would rather not. That was the point of the post (and the object of my ire), not "junkies" per se.

(This happened to my friend btw, and is one of the reasons I avoid the local hospital like the plague - it is an utter shithole in an appalling area).

It is obvious and i agree with you. I didn't say that the partner should be treated as a patient x

Dads can easily bond during the day and bonding won't be prevented by a couple of nights away.

So, unless the hospital is prepared to provide adequate facilities, space and privacy I can't see how mothers or babies can benefit. Nor the fathers.

captain - you are trying to find argument where this is none.

I completely understand why some women don't want men overnight and of course they have the right to feel like that.

My point was solely about the fact that I don't like the way men are being portrayed. That's all.

My post was nothing to do with vulnerability and I was not saying that men should be allowed to stay over and that women should either like it or lump it.

I am simply just saying that the way in which men are being depicted in this thread is not nice.

I (personally) do think some moms can benefit. Having a brand new baby is exhilarating but also nerve wrecking. It also is a time when (yes) mothers are very vulnerable and emotional etc etc. I would have loved my DP to stay and i couldn't have cared less if the other patients had their partners too.
I do agree that there is a space issue, but i also think the worst thing is the constant bloody noise. I was in a 6 bed ward and it was absolute mayhem. Babies crying all the time, moms emotional. How anyone can expect you to recover in a ward is beyond me.
I am most definitely all for private rooms, but can see that this is financially impossible x

It's all well and good saying that if you want your DH there you should pay for a room but these rooms simply aren't available and some people also wouldn't be able to afford it.

Also the idea of one to one care being available via the NHS is once again living in dreamland.

I had a traumatic first birth and my husband stayed with me on the ward and thank goodness he did as I was checked on every 4 hours and when I did need something it would sometimes take an hour to get a midwife's attention.

Malteser it is clearly not financially impossible since they are currently building at least one NHS hospital that is 100% en-suite. It is also not financially impossible for other developed countries, most of whom also have free at the point of use healthcare.

Why are we so tolerant of poor care and crap facilities that we can even entertain the possibility of this happening? It beggars belief.

Oh FGS, I'm sure men can take care of themselves and if they don't want to be depicted like that then perhaps some of them shouldn't act like that!

I am simply just saying that the way in which men are being depicted in this thread is not nice.

Cry me a river...

Maltesermom im sure people who've just had heart surgery are vulnerable and emotional too, but they have to get on with it on their own.

Writer, no one is having a go at men. I don't care how lovely someone else's partner is; he's a stranger to me and I don't want to be sleeping, bleeding and trying to BF in a room with men I don't know. The point is not that men are oglers. The point is that women have a right to recover in relative peace and privacy. If a lady isn't well enough to cope with her baby then she'd be in a private room (as I was), or the baby would be in the nursery, or could be discharged home with dad.

I really don't understand how some posters can't see what an invasion of privacy this is. Yes there are failings in postnatal care sometimes, but this is not the answer.
And I stand by my earlier comments: there are some right Precious Princesses on here.

"There are some right precious princesses on here"

What a really horrible thing to say.

Many members have said we should respect the views of women who want their privacy and we don't know what's going on in their life to justify why they feel so vulnerable, well in my eyes it works both ways.

There may be very, very valid reasons why these 'princesses' wanted/needed their partners with them so why not give their feelings some respect as well.

MN can be truly vile sometimes.

I had a traumatic first birth and my husband stayed with me on the ward and thank goodness he did

Which is fine. There will be occasions where the odd person staying overnight would be justifiable. But not as a rule.

ChickChickQuack - agree some really are too precious! Honestly. We are all pretty strong women and we can bloody well cope with a couple of nights alone. Its not hard.

And I whole heartedly agree patient care and privacy should be top priority not the wants of some mums and dads who have to wait an extra day or two to spend with their newborn when no doubt the majority would sleep through the night anyway

I was on the ward for 2 weeks prior to birth and I saw some awful 'dads'.

The one who kept wheeling his partner down for a cig when she was told to stop because baby's heart rate kept dropping. She was given nicotine patches so not cold turkey. - see what I mean? NO PRIVACY

The one who sat there watching ITV all day so bloody loud then switched over for more jezza action completely ignoring his labouring wife.

The couple next to me waiting to be induced and the dad kept pulling the curtain back to talk to me! the curtain was shut. That means I want privacy. He didn't get it. Again NO PRIVACY

The couple who complained I was taken down to be induced before them and the partner kicked up a fuss he had to miss more work. WTaF

The 'dad' who shouted at his partner to 'shut the fuck up' when she was labouring.

The dad who threw a fit his wife was only given gas and air. Not an epidural. (labour ward was full, she had to wait just one hour)

I had a sweep on the ward too. Chap in the next bed kept walking around knocking the curtain, yanking it open with his movements while I had a Dr with her hand up me chuff and the rest of the bay saw it. Yeah... Extra bodies on a ward will help with that.

this all happened on my post-natal ward that was also the overspill for the labour ward when it was really busy.

Again, my care from Drs and other staff was excellent, I have no problems with that. They did their absolute best to remain confidential and protect my privacy given the busyness of the wards and the number of patients. It was the visitors who didn't give a hoot. All visitors but mostly the dad's cocking it all up.

Even the lunch lady had the decency to call me from behind the curtain before coming in to ask for my lunch order.

Here we go again.

1. The patients need to be there. The mum and baby are the patients

1. Sharing a room with 5 other adults and at least 6 babies isn't a particularly pleasant or quiet experience but see above.

1. Doubling the number of adults increases the noise even if they are all the most considerate people ever.

1. Space is already limited. By doubling the number of adults you significantly reduce the space available per person which makes it a more stressfully place to be and makes it more difficult (and dangerous from a moving and handling point of view )for staff to deliver medical care.

1. Increased noise and increased stress makes sleep more difficult. Sleep is required to maintain clear thinking and is an important part of wound healing.

1. Stress hormones (see point 4) impair wound healing and milk production. They also impair your immune system, increasing the chance of infection.

1. Increased footfall in a hospital ward increases the risk of HAI (I'm not saying dad's are dirty.

1. This is not against dad's or the mum who didn't give birth. Being squeezed in with 5 other couples, getting less sleep than the average parents of new borns and being stressed is not conducive to bonding.

All the above is without considering twats. The more people there are the higher the chance that at least one of them is a twat.

AHEM
bit of peace and love please