Dads staying over night

[silverperiwinkle]

What do you think?
m.burtonmail.co.uk/Burton-Queen-s-Hospital-introduce-scheme-allow/story-27564928-detail/story.html

This is nothing to do with sexual predators or men looking at boobs ( which will be large, veiny and leaky most probably), it's to do with having the right to recover post partum in peace and privacy.

It's the same reason I won't discuss even innocuous health problems in a waiting room or on a bus stop- because it's private.

Women in need will end up discharging themselves before they should due to a lack of privacy. Staff will be cut back "because partners can help". It's got disaster written all over it.

The women who say they needed their DH- whilst I have sympathy for your ordeal it actually throws a lot of light on how woefully understaffed hospitals already are. In my opinion the lack of midwives and staff is at crisis point already.

That's what needs to be tackled, not the introduction of family helpers to justify further budget cuts.

Battleaxe, I think you are right. My partner ended up discharging me as I was getting worse in hosoital, not better. Nobody thought anything was wrong apart from us. Having given birth since, I now know I haermhorraged (spelling??) and needed a transfusion. Instead, I was unwell for two years.

Catsize, I'm sorry you had such a rough time
If you were that unwell, of course you should have been in a private room though, so not an issue to have a partner staying.
And no, it doesn't matter at all that your DP is female. She wasn't a patient so shouldn't be in a ward. The issue with your particular case sounds like lack of care from your hospital, which is the point most of us are making. Private room with partner, or properly cared for on a ward on your own.

Mad, I'm in Scotland, and they're not doing it here and have no plans to. Delighted that I won't have to find out what a disaster this will be.

Your lack of empathy for other women in vulnerable states is horrifying.

Also, just to add, I was quite ill after giving birth and was in a private room for 5 nights. For the night after I gave birth, I was too ill to even be moved out of the labour suite so they cared for me there. And DH still didn't stay over. They were very strict about him leaving on time. And this was fine.

Those who would have been seriously ill (or worse) without a partner there, do you not see that the job of giving you the medical care you need and saving your life should have been the job of trained medical staff, not an unpaid partner or relative? There should have been enough staff. And if a woman has needs beyond a regular post-natal ward, there should be a higher dependency ward for those cases. A regular post-natal ward should be for average cases, and despite any birth being traumatic in some way, most women should be able to cope without somebody there overnight as long as they are supported by proper staff. Like widows and single mothers have to do.

I really fear for the future of our health service with this. This will be my last birth, but in years to come will we have taken it so far that relatives have to plaster limbs, administer chemo drugs and set up dialysis?

I was seriously ill after dd1 was born. Unconscious for the first few hours and still unable to move from the waist down for about 24 hr (yes I know it wasn't supposed to happen that way). Had no food for over 24 hrs no water, my buzzer was looped up high out of reach and had to do spectacular sliding moves to reach dd (burst my stitches in the process).

The care was abysmal but I still think partners staying over night is a horrific idea. Changes need to be made but it's more staff and strong leadership from ward sister level that's needed. Not adding to problems by creating new ones with overcrowding the place with non-patients.

Annies, very well said. Agree entirely.

I had a tough birth. I then had brilliant care from staff so didn't feel the need for husband to stay he probably need the rest at home.

However I was in a bay of 4 and one of the other women was a nightmare. Rude to all staff and the rest of us in the bay. Demanding, loud and critical to us. I was struggling to settle my little one -first time mum, c section, catheter still in so limited mobility - and she kept complaining about me. So personally I think private rooms should be the norm.

One in four women experience domestic abuse or domestic violence at some point in their lives. This may be physical, sexual, emotional or psychological abuse. 30% of this abuse starts in pregnancy, and existing abuse may get worse during pregnancy or after giving birth.
Domestic abuse during pregnancy puts you and your unborn child in danger. It increases the risk of miscarriage, infection, premature birth, and injury or death to the baby.

This from the NHS website rather pisses on the idea that 99% of partners will be lovingly and silently be mopping their partners brows, and it only includes actual abuse/violence, not loud talking, watching netflix all night or general bellendery.

I was recently on an induction ward in my local hospital for 4 days until they could get me to labour ward. Partners could stay in the ward of 4 bays. So many people came after and went before me and honestly most were complete bellends. Pressing the buzzer constantly, watching the TV LOUD and without headphones, chatting at the top of their voices etc. It was a nightmare. I was so conscious of us making noise I kept the curtain shut and made us talk in whispers. I went to the postnatal ward about 6am and was asked if I wanted dp to stay, they are trialling it and have a couple of wards where it's allowed. I said yes as it was already 6am and I have to say that was really loud too, partners snoring, TV already on etc. and while I appreciated him there to do the things I couldn't get do with my catheter in I think it should be limited to side rooms only.

Having read the thread, I wonder if the real elephant in the room is why the bloody fuck we in the UK still have multi-occupancy wards when the rest of the world has private or twin rooms?

I know that the new Royal Liverpool is being built with 100% single en-suite rooms but this still seems very much the exception. Wards are a terrible idea from a privacy, patient confidentiality, infection-control and many other points of view - I appreciate it can be handy to be seen by others if you bleed out suddenly - but Jesus fucking wept, add in partners and babies and it's fucking bedlam.

This is good news for private maternity providers - maybe that is the plan?

Particularly small 6 bed wards.

I am dreading giving birth in November now my hospital has introduced this, it was bad enough in the day in a 6 bedded ward, babies crying, visitors (some unsavoury!). At least at night there was some sort of calm and peace. Recovering from childbirth separated by a thin curtain from a strange man is not ideal at all, let alone the noise, snoring etc.

A private room is £900 a night, there is no amenity room

Farfall I think all you can do is make it clear that you will not accept it. I am amazed this has been introduced by the back door without more protest tbh - just inform the ward sister clearly and calmly that you will not accept a mixed ward and ask what their contingency plan is for women who object on personal/moral/religious grounds. Pretty sure there will be a plan, but they won't advertise it. This seems to have been introduced for the convenience of medical staff rather than the legitimate interests of patients.

I posted earlier saying how invaluable I found having dp overnight with me, as I was a wreck, couldn't walk, needed to be supported in the shower etc, however reading all the responses has made me change my mind. It IS a staffing issue, that women need assistance to care for their babies while recovering from what can be an horrendous birth experience. What are post natal wards for? To help women recover and for support in breast feeding, preventing or spotting post partum complications such infections, treating newborn issues such as jaundice or any health concerns.
Instead they are treated as warehouses to store post partum women for the convenience of certain checks and pp observation but very little active support. (This is absolutely NOT the fault of the midwives and nursery nurses. They don't set the staffing levels).

I do now think rather than my husband, some post natal nurses are needed for helping with picking up babies, dealing with catheters, supporting and guiding breastfeeding for those that want it and lots of other things that many partners are ill-equipped to deal with.

That way every women regardless of whether she had a baby with a bigger twat than the recently stretched ones on post natal, can receive the same care and attention as those who have brilliantly supportive partners.

There needs to be an acknowledgment that after birth there are now two patients for each bed on that ward (3 if twins) and staffing should reflect that.

HappilyMarriedExpat, I agree with you. I don't understand why the wards aren't all single rooms already rather than the curtain things? Women and babies are meant to be recovering and not listening to the rest of the ward x

"Since when were all men gawpers and sexual predators?! If some women would feel uncomfortable with this then I'd support their decision as nobody should be made to feel even more vulnerable and uncomfortable when going through a difficult time but some of the comments on here are ridiculous.

I'm sure 99% of men who would be visiting or staying over only have eyes for their newborn and concern for their wife rather than ogling strange women but the picture being painted here is shocking. "

100% agree.

I'm pretty sure my husband was far too too engrossed with looking after me and helping me with DS to even think about sneaking off 20 seconds to try and get a crafty ogle of some other woman having an examination behind closed curtains.

There are men on the wards all day, be it fathers or visiting make relatives, so what's the difference? Or do men's sexual urges to look at other women only come alive at night?

I just find it hard to believe that a father would be sitting next to his wife and baby at night and secretly praying that she would go to sleep so he could creep out and try and look behind another woman's curtains in the hope of seeing some breasts....

Just like we as women can contain ourselves when it comes to having urges to look at strange men's genitals (which I'm pretty sure we don't) then I'm pretty sure men have the same control over themselves. I.e I doubt they even think about, let alone care, about what's going on behind other people's closed curtains.

Exactly Malteser - medical staff are (rightly) read the riot act if they disclose patient information outside the ward, but as patients we are expected to divulge our entire medical history to people separated from us by a paper curtain. And often, their extended family! It's barmy.

And thinking about my above post, I am not even sure that the maternity facilities will be relocated to the new Royal, so post partum women may not even benefit from the single en suite rooms. Also barmy, since they are the patients more likely to need overnight support!

I don't think anyone could object too strenuously to partners staying if all the rooms were private and en-suite.

Write if you read the other thread, you will see accounts by women who were subjected to this idiotic idea which might change your mind.

IIRC a labouring woman was told to STFU, an abusive man kicked his wife out of the bed because he "needed to get up for work" and another partner insisted on exercising his marital rights with his post partum, crying wife on the shared fucking ward. If you genuinely can't see anything untoward happening, then you must live a lovely, sheltered life and I envy you. In my local hospital, in the shittiest of shitty areas, anyone on opiates has to have their IV chained to the wall because junkies steal them. People like that also breed and that will be the reality of a mixed post natal ward for a lot of people.

Even not accounting for abusive men and unsavoury people, the overcrowding alone can be a big problem. And the scheme is being proposed for a 6 bed ward!
I expect most fathers won't actually want to stay. But imagine 12 adults and 6 crying babies.

There are men on the wards all day, be it fathers or visiting make relatives, so what's the difference?

You seriously can't see the difference between a ward having triple occupancy for maybe 10 hours a day, and it being 24/7?

Imagine you are in for 3 nights, you lose a full nights sleep in labour and then have to share a room with not only 5 babies (6 including your own) but with 5 chatting couples. They have also had their sleep fucked up by birth, and are excited/cluesless about how to look after a baby. Are you telling me that there is 'no difference' in the noise levels and no privacy issues at all in having share your sleeping as well as waking time with double the number of adult strangers?

If there is no difference then why does every other ward (except peads and ICU) have restricted visiting and protected mealtime? Every single one. Why is it only mother women who are told there is no difference between having a solid block of the night where there is an expectation that patients will be allowed to rest and having visiting hours extended for the convenience of non-patients?

Captain - I agree with every word. Anyone who thinks we are in some kind of post-feminist, Aracadian era where women are treated equally needs to explain that one to me.

Exactly, captain.

On every other medical ward it is accepted that the patient, the person recovering from the medical event, requires some peace and quiet in order to try and recover.

(This is of course bar pediatrics, which is different because young children are not able to be their own advocates and will require an adult/guardian presence most of the time, as well as considering that young children will probably be scared of being in hospital.)

It is accepted that the baby stays with the mum in the hospital. But bar breastfeeding, in some cases it isn't actually a physical requirement. If a woman needed to stay in for several days or even weeks, the baby could be just as easily cared for at home away from the mother.

The mother is the patient. Especially if she is staying in for several days because she is recovering from physical trauma or an operation. The patient deserves the same opportunities to rest, recover and sleep in some relative quiet just like any other patient in the hospital.

As I said before, your husband might be lovely, all your friends' husbands might be lovely but that sure as hell doesn't mean everyone else's is too! What happened to CaptainHolt should never happen to any woman.